Slow Down....Your AWD/4WD is NOT Invincible in Snow
02-13-14, 05:56 PM
#16
Another point nobody mentioned is the weight of these 3 row 4wd SUV's. Granted they might have the added grip of 4wd to get them going, but because of all that mass, they handle and stop way worse compared to somebody like myself in a 2wd Toyota pickup that weighs 2800lbs.
IE you get going too fast in a corner in that little truck, its much easier to countersteer, apply the brakes or throttle as neccesary, and get that little truck back in line. Go too fast in that corner in a 6000lb Suburban, its a lot harder to correct and stay on course because that 6000lbs wants to push you to that outside corner, or come around on you.
IE you get going too fast in a corner in that little truck, its much easier to countersteer, apply the brakes or throttle as neccesary, and get that little truck back in line. Go too fast in that corner in a 6000lb Suburban, its a lot harder to correct and stay on course because that 6000lbs wants to push you to that outside corner, or come around on you.
02-13-14, 05:58 PM
#17
Lexus Fanatic
LOL, hopefully there wasn't some poor SOB waiting for a bus in that spot
02-14-14, 06:20 AM
#18
Lexus Champion
A major winter storm is currently affecting the southern and eastern parts of the country.....in the western parts of the D.C. area, one of the worst in four years. I've got some 12 inches, and drifting, on the ground at my house as I write this...I had to go out, start some shoveling, and make sure that my heat-pump compressor didn't get choked off by the deep snow.
Inevitably, however, in bad winter conditions (and, from local news reports this morning of vehicles that wind up in the ditch, this one seems to be no exception), there's always a hard-core group of SUV/AWD/4WD truck drivers who think that the laws of physics don't apply to them. They think that the all-wheel-drive nature of their vehicles somehow gives them a magic wand that they just wave, start up the engine, and drive like they were on dry pavement. In other words, their egos start writing checks that neither their brains nor their vehicles can cash.
Well, sorry, folks...it just doesn't work that way. Vehicles like these DO have some advantages in the slick and/or white stuff (and I'll get to those in a minute). But they are not a license to simply thumb your nose at slick conditions and pretend like they don't exist...as some of their drivers unfortunately do.
First of all, in general, AWD/4WD will help you get going from a standstill on slick surfaces or in deep snow/mud better then FWD or RWD, particularly with a high ground clearance....though the type of tires used can often make a difference. Dry-pavement, low-profile, summer-only performance tires or low-rolling resistance tires with hard rubber compounds used for high fuel-mileage, in general, don't work well on slick surfaces. Even AWD can be compromised with unsuitable tires for the conditions. AWD will also, in some conditions, improve sure-footedness in low-speed handling on slick surfaces (and I do mean low speed). AWD, in general will also help one get up hills and grades that would sometimes mean a RWD or FWD vehicle getting stuck on. And if your 4WD/AWD system allows you to start from a stop in second gear or lock the rear differential, then so much the better...but the differential should not be locked (or a part-time 4WD system used) on dry surfaces.
However, 4WD/AWD will NOT help you to stop any shorter, or prevent wheel-lockup from braking (that, of course, is the job of the anti-lock braking system on newer vehicles...and the tires only have so much available grip for braking, regardless of the drive system). Nor will 4WD/AWD allow you to barrel around sharp corners on slick surfaces like you were in a sports car or on dry pavement...this is a prime reason why so many of those vehicles wind up in the ditch. Again, the tires have only so much available grip for cornering traction regardless of the drive-system. The traction control and vehicle-stability systems in modern vehicles, of course, work with all types of drive-systems, but, again, aren't magic...they won't necessarily add any more grip to the tires than is available with the laws of physics.
So, in a nutshell, enjoy the added traction-capabilities and security of your AWD/4WD system the way they were designed and meant to be used, but KNOW THEIR LIMITATIONS.....an drive accordingly. That way, you probably won't end up embarassed and explaining to a local TV-reporter, on camera (and possibly to a cop), why your ego outran your capabilities.
Inevitably, however, in bad winter conditions (and, from local news reports this morning of vehicles that wind up in the ditch, this one seems to be no exception), there's always a hard-core group of SUV/AWD/4WD truck drivers who think that the laws of physics don't apply to them. They think that the all-wheel-drive nature of their vehicles somehow gives them a magic wand that they just wave, start up the engine, and drive like they were on dry pavement. In other words, their egos start writing checks that neither their brains nor their vehicles can cash.
Well, sorry, folks...it just doesn't work that way. Vehicles like these DO have some advantages in the slick and/or white stuff (and I'll get to those in a minute). But they are not a license to simply thumb your nose at slick conditions and pretend like they don't exist...as some of their drivers unfortunately do.
First of all, in general, AWD/4WD will help you get going from a standstill on slick surfaces or in deep snow/mud better then FWD or RWD, particularly with a high ground clearance....though the type of tires used can often make a difference. Dry-pavement, low-profile, summer-only performance tires or low-rolling resistance tires with hard rubber compounds used for high fuel-mileage, in general, don't work well on slick surfaces. Even AWD can be compromised with unsuitable tires for the conditions. AWD will also, in some conditions, improve sure-footedness in low-speed handling on slick surfaces (and I do mean low speed). AWD, in general will also help one get up hills and grades that would sometimes mean a RWD or FWD vehicle getting stuck on. And if your 4WD/AWD system allows you to start from a stop in second gear or lock the rear differential, then so much the better...but the differential should not be locked (or a part-time 4WD system used) on dry surfaces.
However, 4WD/AWD will NOT help you to stop any shorter, or prevent wheel-lockup from braking (that, of course, is the job of the anti-lock braking system on newer vehicles...and the tires only have so much available grip for braking, regardless of the drive system). Nor will 4WD/AWD allow you to barrel around sharp corners on slick surfaces like you were in a sports car or on dry pavement...this is a prime reason why so many of those vehicles wind up in the ditch. Again, the tires have only so much available grip for cornering traction regardless of the drive-system. The traction control and vehicle-stability systems in modern vehicles, of course, work with all types of drive-systems, but, again, aren't magic...they won't necessarily add any more grip to the tires than is available with the laws of physics.
So, in a nutshell, enjoy the added traction-capabilities and security of your AWD/4WD system the way they were designed and meant to be used, but KNOW THEIR LIMITATIONS.....an drive accordingly. That way, you probably won't end up embarassed and explaining to a local TV-reporter, on camera (and possibly to a cop), why your ego outran your capabilities.
So--slow down because it's slippery? It's just too much to ask of people these days. I know its LEGAL to make a right on red, but it's not REQUIRED, don't you realize that when there's a driving snowstorm, it may be wise just to WAIT???
I'm not afraid of driving in snow, but I avoid doing it, because there's just too many people out there without a lick of common sense.
02-14-14, 06:48 AM
#19
Lexus Champion
People just don't have common sense. They don't even do basic things like clear the snow off of tail lights and headlights. I can't see your brake lights or turn signals when they are covered with snow--it takes 30 seconds to wipe the brush over your lights after you cleared the snow off the windows (HA--if people even do that!! Especially the rear window).
So--slow down because it's slippery? It's just too much to ask of people these days. I know its LEGAL to make a right on red, but it's not REQUIRED, don't you realize that when there's a driving snowstorm, it may be wise just to WAIT???
I'm not afraid of driving in snow, but I avoid doing it, because there's just too many people out there without a lick of common sense.
So--slow down because it's slippery? It's just too much to ask of people these days. I know its LEGAL to make a right on red, but it's not REQUIRED, don't you realize that when there's a driving snowstorm, it may be wise just to WAIT???
I'm not afraid of driving in snow, but I avoid doing it, because there's just too many people out there without a lick of common sense.
dumb motherfudgers will be right on my azz on a wet road...I'll hit the brakes to get them away from me.
02-14-14, 07:29 AM
#20
Out of Warranty
In the blizzard of '71 in Amarillo I recall looking out my street level office window in downtown looking for the source of the whirring noise coming from somewhere out on the street. A huge, brand new Eldorado heaves into view with a little old gray-haired lady at the helm . . . slowly fishtailing northbound across three traffic lanes. Fortunately for her, the storm had begun at 3am on a Saturday morning so the only people out in this miserable weather had parked out of the bitter north wind on the east-west streets. IF you had to get out, all the local news organizations were recommending chains, and gas stations all over town had a line of cars waiting to get chains put on.
New luxo-boat with 500CID V8, 400bhp, and FWD . . . with chains neatly installed on the REAR wheels. Evidently not everyone down at the gas station was getting the word.
New luxo-boat with 500CID V8, 400bhp, and FWD . . . with chains neatly installed on the REAR wheels. Evidently not everyone down at the gas station was getting the word.
02-14-14, 08:15 AM
#21
Lexus Champion
And when you fly down the highway on a bright sunny day after a snow storm, without leaving extra room for the cars in front of you, when the highway is wet (or, at least you THINK it's wet) at 32 degrees, you get a major pile up:
http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?se...cal&id=9432120
Keep in mind, this is Philly, not Atlanta. People here may not be as experienced at winter driving like in Syracuse or Boston, but it does snow here during the winter....
http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?se...cal&id=9432120
Keep in mind, this is Philly, not Atlanta. People here may not be as experienced at winter driving like in Syracuse or Boston, but it does snow here during the winter....
02-14-14, 09:05 AM
#22
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Lil4X
New luxo-boat with 500CID V8, 400bhp, and FWD . . . with chains neatly installed on the REAR wheels.
I would expect more intelligence than that from the Three Stooges. 
02-14-14, 09:13 AM
#23
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
02-14-14, 09:41 AM
#24
Back then FWD was rare and most guys working at gas stations don't have a PHD. Surprisingly, this screw-up may have saved the little old lady a lot of pain. If you are only going to put chains on one axle, the rear is better. When I lived in Seattle, a neighbor had a front wheel drive Acura and put chains on the front only. He got up the hill fine, but the first downhill section he spun out and hit a pole. With traction on the front only, when he let up on the accelerator to slow for downhill, the car reacted like he had slammed on the brakes. Good traction in front and zero in the rear. If you are going to put chains (or snow tires) on a FWD, you must do all 4 wheels.
Steve
02-14-14, 10:16 AM
#25
Lexus Champion
Mike,
Back then FWD was rare and most guys working at gas stations don't have a PHD. Surprisingly, this screw-up may have saved the little old lady a lot of pain. If you are only going to put chains on one axle, the rear is better. When I lived in Seattle, a neighbor had a front wheel drive Acura and put chains on the front only. He got up the hill fine, but the first downhill section he spun out and hit a pole. With traction on the front only, when he let up on the accelerator to slow for downhill, the car reacted like he had slammed on the brakes. Good traction in front and zero in the rear. If you are going to put chains (or snow tires) on a FWD, you must do all 4 wheels.
Steve
Back then FWD was rare and most guys working at gas stations don't have a PHD. Surprisingly, this screw-up may have saved the little old lady a lot of pain. If you are only going to put chains on one axle, the rear is better. When I lived in Seattle, a neighbor had a front wheel drive Acura and put chains on the front only. He got up the hill fine, but the first downhill section he spun out and hit a pole. With traction on the front only, when he let up on the accelerator to slow for downhill, the car reacted like he had slammed on the brakes. Good traction in front and zero in the rear. If you are going to put chains (or snow tires) on a FWD, you must do all 4 wheels.
Steve
02-14-14, 10:49 AM
#26
Out of Warranty
Mike,
Back then FWD was rare and most guys working at gas stations don't have a PHD. Surprisingly, this screw-up may have saved the little old lady a lot of pain. If you are only going to put chains on one axle, the rear is better. When I lived in Seattle, a neighbor had a front wheel drive Acura and put chains on the front only. He got up the hill fine, but the first downhill section he spun out and hit a pole. With traction on the front only, when he let up on the accelerator to slow for downhill, the car reacted like he had slammed on the brakes. Good traction in front and zero in the rear. If you are going to put chains (or snow tires) on a FWD, you must do all 4 wheels.
Steve
Back then FWD was rare and most guys working at gas stations don't have a PHD. Surprisingly, this screw-up may have saved the little old lady a lot of pain. If you are only going to put chains on one axle, the rear is better. When I lived in Seattle, a neighbor had a front wheel drive Acura and put chains on the front only. He got up the hill fine, but the first downhill section he spun out and hit a pole. With traction on the front only, when he let up on the accelerator to slow for downhill, the car reacted like he had slammed on the brakes. Good traction in front and zero in the rear. If you are going to put chains (or snow tires) on a FWD, you must do all 4 wheels.
Steve
Whut's a hill?
02-15-14, 09:41 AM
#27
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Surprisingly, this screw-up may have saved the little old lady a lot of pain. If you are only going to put chains on one axle, the rear is better. When I lived in Seattle, a neighbor had a front wheel drive Acura and put chains on the front only. He got up the hill fine, but the first downhill section he spun out and hit a pole. With traction on the front only, when he let up on the accelerator to slow for downhill, the car reacted like he had slammed on the brakes. Good traction in front and zero in the rear. If you are going to put chains (or snow tires) on a FWD, you must do all 4 wheels.
Steve
Steve
You mention the problem of brake-activated rear spin-outs without chains on the rear. Back then (early 1970s), several large American luxury cars (even before Mercedes-Benz in the 1980s) offered anti-lock brakes as a factory option, but there were few takers.
02-15-14, 01:33 PM
#29
Then there's the exact opposite of the AWD/4WD "Invincibles", the people in those same vehicles that are way too cautious.
What's the point of an AWD vehicle with AT tires if you're still afraid to take a mildly snowy turn at more than .001 mph? I'm following in my RWD sedan (w/winter tires) trying to maintain my sanity. Grrrr! Just stay home till the snow melts
I should also mention that I grew up in Michigan & my first car was a huge RWD '73 Pontiac with a 455 CID V8, so I learned early on how cars handle in the snow
-Mike
What's the point of an AWD vehicle with AT tires if you're still afraid to take a mildly snowy turn at more than .001 mph? I'm following in my RWD sedan (w/winter tires) trying to maintain my sanity. Grrrr! Just stay home till the snow melts
I should also mention that I grew up in Michigan & my first car was a huge RWD '73 Pontiac with a 455 CID V8, so I learned early on how cars handle in the snow
-Mike
02-15-14, 05:55 PM
#30
Guest
Posts: n/a
While I am nowhere near the snow I did have this happen before and it pissed me off. A huge chunk of ice/snow flew off the top of a truck and I had to swerve to avoid it. I've even heard of hit hitting windows and hurting people.