Why Don't Toyota make a Performance Hybrid
#16
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Plain and simple, "performance" hybrids don't sell. Seems a bit of an oxymoron. If you want performance, you're likely not looking to be thrifty with gas. If you are, it's time to examine your priorities. I understand it can make sense to get additional power from and electric motor but now you're just paying thousands more anyway. Which you could buy lots of gas for a conventional V6.
The vast majority of hybrid buyers just want to save gas. Not get great 0-60 times. Look at the Honda CR-Z. A sport hybrid. Complete sales failure. Take the same car and make it a non - hybrid for a couple grand less, and they'd be selling far more.
The vast majority of hybrid buyers just want to save gas. Not get great 0-60 times. Look at the Honda CR-Z. A sport hybrid. Complete sales failure. Take the same car and make it a non - hybrid for a couple grand less, and they'd be selling far more.
Last edited by -J-P-L-; 03-15-14 at 07:44 PM.
#17
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CRZ fails, because it is so weak, only 156 hp, and 9 seconds 0-60? Now if it was to have 350 hp and 350 torque, with 4.5 seconds to 60. It will sell like crazy, seriously
I dont see a performance number there.
Hybrid is good, if they can make it good. The concept is to store kinetic energy with regenerative braking, and or charging the battery with ICE. Then having instant torque at 0 RPM.
Hybrid like infiniti and BMW is probably the same thing, they use a motor between ICE and Transmission t do the job, as where Toyota use seperate motors like somebody said it.
It look like Toyota can make a pretty good hybrid performance car out o their system. I just dont know why they hold it off. It is easier to modify a battery pack, charging circuits, and electric motors than to set up a Turbo system.
I dont see a performance number there.
Hybrid is good, if they can make it good. The concept is to store kinetic energy with regenerative braking, and or charging the battery with ICE. Then having instant torque at 0 RPM.
Hybrid like infiniti and BMW is probably the same thing, they use a motor between ICE and Transmission t do the job, as where Toyota use seperate motors like somebody said it.
It look like Toyota can make a pretty good hybrid performance car out o their system. I just dont know why they hold it off. It is easier to modify a battery pack, charging circuits, and electric motors than to set up a Turbo system.
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No it wouldn't, because then it would cost like $35K and have no demographic to sell to. It would still have the body of an economy sport coupe which wouldn't appeal to people who can afford over $30K. They're going to get a real sports car. Mustang, Camaro, 370Z, ect....
#19
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That is so weird isn't it. I would love a GS450H, but the Price is too overwhelming. The Q60H beats the GS in every aspects as Performance Hybrid.
The weirder thing is the BMW Active Hybrid 3. It out perform the GS as well. BMW bought the tech from Toyota.
I just can't believe, a Parent of Hybrid Tech is falling behind every one.
The weirder thing is the BMW Active Hybrid 3. It out perform the GS as well. BMW bought the tech from Toyota.
I just can't believe, a Parent of Hybrid Tech is falling behind every one.
Heck, Motortrend even rated the GS450h as better than the Porche Panamera hybrid.
COMPAROS :
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...d/viewall.html
http://www.themotorreport.com.au/561...omparison-test
http://www.sgcarmart.com/news/review.php?AID=541
Basically Whitigir, it is overly simplistic to judge a car solely on its HP rating or its 0-60 times.
The GS450h has it all over its competitors in terms of drivetrain refinement, nimblness, responsiveness/smoothness of drivetrain and actual reali-life mpgs while only being only slightly slower 0-60.
Better real-life mileage? Check. Better handling? Check. More refined throttle response and drivetrain in real-life stop and go traffic? Check. So as a hybrid, it's better than the Germans/Infiniti, as a canyon carver, it's more nimble and confidence inspiring than its competition, as a luxury car, it's only slightly pipped by the mini-7 series, overweight cushmobile known as the F10 5 series. The only thing it's behind in is a few fractions of a tenth of s second in 0-60.
Don't forget, you are also talking about LUXURY cars first and foremost before even considering that they are performance hybrids
Motortrend said it best :
After our comparison drive, editor at large Angus MacKenzie asked me which of these cars I'd really prefer to drive. I responded, "Around a racetrack" -- suspecting that's what he was getting at -- "no question, the Porsche. But to the racetrack, the Lexus." And most of our lives are spent, metaphorically speaking, driving to the racetrack. And the M 35h? To neither, I'm afraid.
Third Place: Infiniti M35h
A luxurious and fast-accelerating sedan powered by a clever, minimalist drivetrain. However, it's in desperate need of better software to tame its rough operation.
Second Place: Porsche Panamera S Hybrid
Who would have believed that Porsche could create a four-door, four-seat, front-engined hybrid that handles like a big 911? Now, we do.
First Place: Lexus GS 450h
The best fuel economy here, and substantially superior in terms of driveability. And it handles better than you'd expect too.
Last edited by natnut; 03-15-14 at 10:26 PM.
#20
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No it wouldn't, because then it would cost like $35K and have no demographic to sell to. It would still have the body of an economy sport coupe which wouldn't appeal to people who can afford over $30K. They're going to get a real sports car. Mustang, Camaro, 370Z, ect....
In tearm of modifying a car performance with a hybrid. It is easier to achieve the goals than to modify it with super charger or turbo, while saving a lot more gas.
This stands true for Toyota hybrid system, because they work independently. The hybrid in the infiniti is different.
Simple case in points. Instant torque at 0 RPM. Battery packs can help a car weight distribution....etc.
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So you're aiming this at enthusiasts right? If you add a hybrid system the amount of mods that the car's owner can make to its engine is FAR less than with a traditional ICE engine because of the complexity that hybrids add to a car. If I get a muscle car, it's really easy to toss a blower in the engine bay and get ridiculous gains. What can I do to a hybrid to get similar gains?
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That way of thinking is for old, and out dated people. I will repeat it.
In tearm of modifying a car performance with a hybrid. It is easier to achieve the goals than to modify it with super charger or turbo, while saving a lot more gas.
This stands true for Toyota hybrid system, because they work independently. The hybrid in the infiniti is different.
Simple case in points. Instant torque at 0 RPM. Battery packs can help a car weight distribution....etc.
In tearm of modifying a car performance with a hybrid. It is easier to achieve the goals than to modify it with super charger or turbo, while saving a lot more gas.
This stands true for Toyota hybrid system, because they work independently. The hybrid in the infiniti is different.
Simple case in points. Instant torque at 0 RPM. Battery packs can help a car weight distribution....etc.
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There has been several head to head comparisons with the BMW 5 series hybrid and the Infiniti M35h aka Q60h hybrid and the GS450h beat them both. It may be slightly slower in a straightline but in terms of handling and refinement/smoothness of the hybrid drivetrain, it easily beats both.
Heck, Motortrend even rated the GS450h as better than the Porche Panamera hybrid.
Heck, Motortrend even rated the GS450h as better than the Porche Panamera hybrid.
#28
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Japanese luxury brand Lexus still shunning diesels in favour of petrol-electric hybrid models.
http://news.drive.com.au/drive/motor...305-3469v.html
Japanese brand Lexus says there is no future in diesel-powered luxury models in decades to come.
Speaking at the 2014 Geneva motor show a senior Lexus executive also confirmed there was more advanced hybrid technology being readied for future models.
The brand rushing to catch German rivals Mercedes-Benz, BMW and Audi in the overall prestige sales race says it will continue with petrol-electric hybrid models as its fuel misers, skipping the diesels that have become increasingly popular and are dominant in European markets.
“We are committed to hybrid,” says Lexus vice president Mark Templin.
Despite a shift towards diesel-powered vehicles in Europe – led by tax incentives linked to carbon dioxide emissions – Lexus says it will stick with its strategy of providing petrol-electric models for those chasing improved fuel efficiency and reduced emissions.
“It depends on whether you want to look at short term sales potential or you want to look at long term, where the market is going," said Templin.
“If we look 10, 20, 30 years down the road we don’t see the future in diesel. It’s kind of like a feather in our cap that the Germans are now starting to sell their first hybrids.”
Templin said about 80 per cent of Lexuses sold in western Europe are hybrids, similar to the percentage in Japan, where the desire for cutting edge technology is partially driving their popularity.
“Even in markets where you wouldn’t think people would want to buy hybrids we’re selling a lot of hybrids,” said Templin, pointing to the Middle East and US markets.
He added that Lexus was working on its next generation hybrid technology, which would raise the bar for the technology its parent company, Toyota, has made its own.
“There’s some technology that’s coming for hybrid in future that’s going to make it even more exciting,” he said, refusing to go into details. “You’ll have to wait and see.”
He said rather than a giant leap in hybrid technology it would be “consistent technological advancement”.
The news that Lexus sees no future in diesels could come as a shock to parent company Toyota, which relies heavily on diesel-powered models to lead the market.
To be fair the majority of diesel-powered Toyotas are predominantly serious four-wheel-drives and light commercial vehicles, such as the Prado, LandCruiser and Hilux, something that has been instrumental in making the brand a dominant top seller in Australia.
But sales of diesel models, particularly luxury models, have been growing for more than a decade.
Last year 30 per cent of the 1.1 million cars sold in Australia were powered by a diesel engine, up from 17 per cent in 2007. In the same period hybrid vehicles have increased from 0.5 per cent of the market to 1.3 per cent.
Speaking at the 2014 Geneva motor show a senior Lexus executive also confirmed there was more advanced hybrid technology being readied for future models.
The brand rushing to catch German rivals Mercedes-Benz, BMW and Audi in the overall prestige sales race says it will continue with petrol-electric hybrid models as its fuel misers, skipping the diesels that have become increasingly popular and are dominant in European markets.
“We are committed to hybrid,” says Lexus vice president Mark Templin.
Despite a shift towards diesel-powered vehicles in Europe – led by tax incentives linked to carbon dioxide emissions – Lexus says it will stick with its strategy of providing petrol-electric models for those chasing improved fuel efficiency and reduced emissions.
“It depends on whether you want to look at short term sales potential or you want to look at long term, where the market is going," said Templin.
“If we look 10, 20, 30 years down the road we don’t see the future in diesel. It’s kind of like a feather in our cap that the Germans are now starting to sell their first hybrids.”
Templin said about 80 per cent of Lexuses sold in western Europe are hybrids, similar to the percentage in Japan, where the desire for cutting edge technology is partially driving their popularity.
“Even in markets where you wouldn’t think people would want to buy hybrids we’re selling a lot of hybrids,” said Templin, pointing to the Middle East and US markets.
He added that Lexus was working on its next generation hybrid technology, which would raise the bar for the technology its parent company, Toyota, has made its own.
“There’s some technology that’s coming for hybrid in future that’s going to make it even more exciting,” he said, refusing to go into details. “You’ll have to wait and see.”
He said rather than a giant leap in hybrid technology it would be “consistent technological advancement”.
The news that Lexus sees no future in diesels could come as a shock to parent company Toyota, which relies heavily on diesel-powered models to lead the market.
To be fair the majority of diesel-powered Toyotas are predominantly serious four-wheel-drives and light commercial vehicles, such as the Prado, LandCruiser and Hilux, something that has been instrumental in making the brand a dominant top seller in Australia.
But sales of diesel models, particularly luxury models, have been growing for more than a decade.
Last year 30 per cent of the 1.1 million cars sold in Australia were powered by a diesel engine, up from 17 per cent in 2007. In the same period hybrid vehicles have increased from 0.5 per cent of the market to 1.3 per cent.
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The news that Lexus sees no future in diesels could come as a shock to parent company Toyota, which relies heavily on diesel-powered models to lead the market.
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