Toyota Motor Company -criminal charge
03-22-14, 01:12 PM
#16
Whitigir - Please do not call people DUMB.
Electronic gremlins do exist, and I can and never will never rule out that one did not exist in the Toyota/Lexus electronics. It requires a multitude of signals and situations coming together to reproduce that event. That is why there are software updates routinely applied to PC, Macs, Unix, Linux, iphones, androids, win8p, etc.
Electronic gremlins do exist, and I can and never will never rule out that one did not exist in the Toyota/Lexus electronics. It requires a multitude of signals and situations coming together to reproduce that event. That is why there are software updates routinely applied to PC, Macs, Unix, Linux, iphones, androids, win8p, etc.
As to comparing cars to PC, thats just pure lack of understanding of how these systems work.
03-22-14, 01:38 PM
#17
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by bitkahuna
and it looks like gm were even more negligent, but we'll see if mr. holder holds them to the same standard 
03-22-14, 02:01 PM
#18
Lexus Test Driver
GM pissed on decency and the American flag by the way it conducted itself by mismanaging it's affairs and then fleecing the taxpayer. A critical reason that I'm in a Ford right now.
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03-22-14, 02:59 PM
#19
Lexus Test Driver
I would love to see Aliens as I believe they exist too. And you are correctI just don't know why everybody keep chasing Toyota back, while they did the best they could to satisfy people
03-22-14, 04:03 PM
#20
My appologies, didnt mean to call people dumb, just the mistake...but edited
Irrelevant examples, those operation systems need constant updates because people constantly hack into it. People do not hack into car systems constantly.
Beside, if Electric Gimmicks were allowed to slip by NASA Engineering teams, then we, the American could never be so great at Space technology and Explorations.
I saw what China did to the moon, and that was what I called Electrical Gimmicks.
The whole world has nothing else than NASA to look upon in space technology.....and space technology from NASA are several centuries a head of anything else...a little exaggeration here
It is so easy to say "Hey, things happen." How about you prove it ? I don't believe there are any others better than NASA is to do the investigation job on technologies. If you can tell me one, I would shut up
Irrelevant examples, those operation systems need constant updates because people constantly hack into it. People do not hack into car systems constantly.
Beside, if Electric Gimmicks were allowed to slip by NASA Engineering teams, then we, the American could never be so great at Space technology and Explorations.
I saw what China did to the moon, and that was what I called Electrical Gimmicks.
The whole world has nothing else than NASA to look upon in space technology.....and space technology from NASA are several centuries a head of anything else...a little exaggeration here
It is so easy to say "Hey, things happen." How about you prove it ? I don't believe there are any others better than NASA is to do the investigation job on technologies. If you can tell me one, I would shut up
Have you ever driven remote/radio control cars? Can you tell me what happens when the car is beyond the range of your controller?
The obvious answer is: The car will come to a stop. But does it really? Is it that simple?
For example in the pro series nitro cars, if the batteries of your RC controller dies while the car is running, the car will not stop. It will in fact go out of control and run away at full speed. Sounds familiar. Right?
Last edited by chikoo; 03-22-14 at 04:16 PM.
03-22-14, 05:23 PM
#21
Lexus Fanatic
Were you a GM bondholder that didn't get a full-settlement? Or a GM vehicle owner with defects that the company wouldn't address? Ford, BTW, has had its share of dissatisfied customers lately, too....especially with the SYNC and MyTouch systems.
In my recent experience reviewing and test-driving new Fords, they seem to make some knockouts, like the Fusion and Mustang, and some real duds, like the majority of newer Lincolns.
Last edited by mmarshall; 03-22-14 at 05:28 PM.
03-22-14, 07:39 PM
#22
Lexus Test Driver
I wasn't personally or directly affected by GM's, bailout. But i see that move as incredibly crooked and have no desire to buy their cars.
Sync works fine for me.
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Sync works fine for me.
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Last edited by FrankReynoldsCPA; 03-23-14 at 12:39 PM.
03-23-14, 11:57 AM
#23
Driver School Candidate
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@BrettJacks I agree you do not have to be directly affected to stand on principal. I thought old GM was a crappy company that deserved to fail. Due to a certain groups allegiance to the UAW normal bankruptcy protocol and the rule of law was ignored, which unfortunately was just a precursor for the following 8 years.
03-23-14, 12:41 PM
#24
Lexus Test Driver
@BrettJacks I agree you do not have to be directly affected to stand on principal. I thought old GM was a crappy company that deserved to fail. Due to a certain groups allegiance to the UAW normal bankruptcy protocol and the rule of law was ignored, which unfortunately was just a precursor for the following 8 years.
The only GM products that I will own are the classic F-bodies. Nothing new from them.
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03-23-14, 02:35 PM
#25
Updates are not required just because of hackers. Those are only security updates. Evidently you have very little if any background in software programming. There are many situations that arise where the program goes into a recursive loop or pickups the wrong signal and treats it as the right signal. For example, the input for brakes under a very specific situation could have been interpreted by the software as the acceleration signal. Or in the worst case, it is stuck in a loop and the slight gas pedal input to increase the speed by the driver to cross the yellow light is played in a loop and it will keep adding upon the previous signal. In effect, the input for a 2 mph speed increase is then 4, then 8, then 16, and so on. I hope you get the point.
Have you ever driven remote/radio control cars? Can you tell me what happens when the car is beyond the range of your controller?
The obvious answer is: The car will come to a stop. But does it really? Is it that simple?
For example in the pro series nitro cars, if the batteries of your RC controller dies while the car is running, the car will not stop. It will in fact go out of control and run away at full speed. Sounds familiar. Right?
Have you ever driven remote/radio control cars? Can you tell me what happens when the car is beyond the range of your controller?
The obvious answer is: The car will come to a stop. But does it really? Is it that simple?
For example in the pro series nitro cars, if the batteries of your RC controller dies while the car is running, the car will not stop. It will in fact go out of control and run away at full speed. Sounds familiar. Right?
RC cars and Android phones have nothing to do with electronics that go into cars.
There is nothing magical when it comes to software, bunch of 0's and 1's. If there is an issue with software, then it is going to be replicable... fact that nobody ever found replicable issue means that there simply isnt one.
Besides, recalls and this charge has nothing to do with what you are talking about... they are about hardware issues, not software.
03-23-14, 02:38 PM
#26
Criminal charge and 1.2 billion settlement is something you can do on every single manufacturer out there, and now. If you check any Ford, Chrysler or GM recall and see how they are recalling cars from 2006-2009 but not 2010 and 2011, because they fixed it in production 4 years ago, thats why they are punishing Toyota, except that Toyota's difference between recall and fix was less than that.
03-24-14, 12:17 PM
#28
Excellent article from WSJ:
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/...850045676.html
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/...850045676.html
Nhtsa examined 58 Toyota 7203.TO +1.70% vehicles that figured in alleged UA crashes. It found no signs that either throttles or brakes had failed, and typically no data indicating sustained braking at all. Of 40 vehicles with usable "black-box" data on board, one was a floor-mat entrapment case. The agency concluded that it "believes that the most likely cause of the remaining 39 UA incidents was pedal misapplication."
According to the Justice narrative, Toyota carried out its symbolic mat fix on only some models and waited a couple of months to flag other models where freak mat accidents might just as easily happen. Yet there's no good evidence that Toyota's several-million-car mat fix averted even one serious crash, let alone that extending it to a few million other cars slightly earlier would have mattered. The only way to lower this kind of risk all the way to zero—in any vehicle—would be to ban mats altogether or put the pedals somewhere other than on the floor.
Left out of all this is the conclusion reached in the Nhtsa's 2011 report: There was no evidence sticky pedals played a role in any of the accidents. The agency also acknowledges that sticky or otherwise, a gas pedal can be overridden by properly functioning brakes.
Toyota's cars are hardly unsafe. For the 2001-04 model years, for example, Toyota and Lexus accounted for five of the 12 models with the lowest death rates per driver year, and zero of the 12 with the highest. But the company is a multinational whose bottom line depends on a return to good publicity and putting legal troubles behind it in the huge U.S. market.
Toyota's cars are hardly unsafe. For the 2001-04 model years, for example, Toyota and Lexus accounted for five of the 12 models with the lowest death rates per driver year, and zero of the 12 with the highest. But the company is a multinational whose bottom line depends on a return to good publicity and putting legal troubles behind it in the huge U.S. market.
03-24-14, 02:39 PM
#29
well, my living is software and I think you probably have no idea about what you are talking about at all.
RC cars and Android phones have nothing to do with electronics that go into cars.
There is nothing magical when it comes to software, bunch of 0's and 1's. If there is an issue with software, then it is going to be replicable... fact that nobody ever found replicable issue means that there simply isnt one.
Besides, recalls and this charge has nothing to do with what you are talking about... they are about hardware issues, not software.
RC cars and Android phones have nothing to do with electronics that go into cars.
There is nothing magical when it comes to software, bunch of 0's and 1's. If there is an issue with software, then it is going to be replicable... fact that nobody ever found replicable issue means that there simply isnt one.
Besides, recalls and this charge has nothing to do with what you are talking about... they are about hardware issues, not software.
03-24-14, 02:58 PM
#30
Excellent article from WSJ:
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/...850045676.html
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/...850045676.html
