Dodge Caravan gets the axe
#16
Lead Lap
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I have to trust that they know what they are doing, but focusing on "sportiness" didn't end well for Pontiac. At the end of the day, I just don't think there is a large enough customer base that cares about sportiness, as opposed to value. This means that the Chrysler brand is going to have to be all things to all people; starting with value at the economy car level with the new 100, to a family hauler Grand Caravan, to the near luxo with a tricked out 300.
And, are they telling me that Chrysler will not longer make "sporty" version of their models (top of the line 200 looks pretty sporty to me).
Good luck, Fiat.
And, are they telling me that Chrysler will not longer make "sporty" version of their models (top of the line 200 looks pretty sporty to me).
Good luck, Fiat.
Pontiac's attempt was weak at best. The G8 was too little too late and the Solstice was compromised from the start. Their other tarted up models were lacking in quality and lacked AWD/RWD. It should say something that GM's sportiest models were Chevrolets by Pontiac's demise. (Camaro/Corvette)
I agree with your volume point, but that's why Chrysler is being positioned as the mainstream brand and Dodge as the ancillary brand. It should have no problem doing that, as the range it will be occupying is fairly typical. The sporty version of the Chrysler 200 (the 200S) is hardly a sports sedan. The Mazda6 will still probably have better dynamics. Dodge is going one step further- there will be no eco models, but there will be HiPo versions (like the SRT crossover). In the case of the Dart, the 2.4L I4 will likely be the base engine, indicating that all Dodges will need to have a certain amount of scoot to prove their worth. This will be interesting to say the least.
This is my thought as well - it reeks of Pontiac. Make sports packages available on your mainstream cars and be done with it. "Sporty" doesn't justify the existence of an entire brand - history has proven that. The creation of the RAM brand was another blunder, IMO. Dodge should have stayed focused on trucks, SUVs and special projects like the Viper and Challenger. Scratch the crappy rebadged sedans, aside from maybe the Charger. This gives Chrysler breathing room and each brand a unique value proposition.
If Chrysler gets a CUV, I assume it's going to be based on the Grand Cherokee platform in some capacity. So we'll have Jeep, Chrysler and Dodge versions of the same vehicle, and who knows if it will be used by another brand for something different.
If you consider cars, trucks, SUVs and CUVs, I still think there's going to be too much overlap between Chrysler, Dodge and Jeep based on what we just heard about 5 year plans.
If you consider cars, trucks, SUVs and CUVs, I still think there's going to be too much overlap between Chrysler, Dodge and Jeep based on what we just heard about 5 year plans.
#17
Lexus Test Driver
iTrader: (1)
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Huge mistake. The GC is a bread and butter mainstay, that sells well and people rely on across mid-America. It is good, and could easily be better with more refining. Trying to re-invent an American brand is risky business that rarely works. They should focus on what already works, and perfect that while sprouting similar products that mesh with what people expect from the brand. Re-inventing the brand is a waste of time and not necessary. Dodge doesn't need to be something else it hasn't been... it just needs refining. That would be the cheapest way to higher sales and profits. No need to re-invent the company or wheel, but someone with a flamboyant European vision has to go and ruin it. First the weak Dart, now this.
#18
Lead Lap
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You can't move forward if you're holding on to the past. The GC may sell well, but it's junk compared to it's rivals. It's only advantage is price. As Chrysler moves downmarket and stops trying to represent itself as a premium brand, they can also sell the T&C for the same price.
#19
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You can't move forward if you're holding on to the past. The GC may sell well, but it's junk compared to it's rivals. It's only advantage is price. As Chrysler moves downmarket and stops trying to represent itself as a premium brand, they can also sell the T&C for the same price.
I rented a T+C for 2 days last month.
It looks like the sports edition (didn't see any sport badging) with the vinyl/cloth seat, tight steering, and probably some other equipment.
Design and quality wasn't bad at all (I have low expectations for these brands), but my gawd, the transmission was horrible.
![Egads!](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/pat.gif)
With 33k miles, it felt like it was straining. It couldn't hold the rpm at all. Everytime I let off my foot, rpm just drops.
Talk about major lag (can't tell if it's a horrible dbw design or a weak tranny).........it was pretty much like driving a sling shot: sloooow for a good couple seconds, then BAM! By then, you're ready to hit the brake
![EEK!](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/eek1.gif)
I cussed that thing everytime I drove it.
![Sad](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/sad.gif)
I couldn't be happier to get back in my sienna. Shifting, pick up speed, the drive is so smooth and seamless.
![Thumb Up](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
#20
#21
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I agree.
I rented a T+C for 2 days last month.
It looks like the sports edition (didn't see any sport badging) with the vinyl/cloth seat, tight steering, and probably some other equipment.
Design and quality wasn't bad at all (I have low expectations for these brands), but my gawd, the transmission was horrible.![Egads!](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/pat.gif)
With 33k miles, it felt like it was straining. It couldn't hold the rpm at all. Everytime I let off my foot, rpm just drops.
Talk about major lag (can't tell if it's a horrible dbw design or a weak tranny).........it was pretty much like driving a sling shot: sloooow for a good couple seconds, then BAM! By then, you're ready to hit the brake![EEK!](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/eek1.gif)
I cussed that thing everytime I drove it.![Sad](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/sad.gif)
I couldn't be happier to get back in my sienna. Shifting, pick up speed, the drive is so smooth and seamless.![Thumb Up](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
I rented a T+C for 2 days last month.
It looks like the sports edition (didn't see any sport badging) with the vinyl/cloth seat, tight steering, and probably some other equipment.
Design and quality wasn't bad at all (I have low expectations for these brands), but my gawd, the transmission was horrible.
![Egads!](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/pat.gif)
With 33k miles, it felt like it was straining. It couldn't hold the rpm at all. Everytime I let off my foot, rpm just drops.
Talk about major lag (can't tell if it's a horrible dbw design or a weak tranny).........it was pretty much like driving a sling shot: sloooow for a good couple seconds, then BAM! By then, you're ready to hit the brake
![EEK!](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/eek1.gif)
I cussed that thing everytime I drove it.
![Sad](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/sad.gif)
I couldn't be happier to get back in my sienna. Shifting, pick up speed, the drive is so smooth and seamless.
![Thumb Up](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
#22
Lead Lap
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Also going to drop this here, as a comparo with the refreshed T&C: http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...g-elite-page-5
#23
Lexus Champion
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Also going to drop this here, as a comparo with the refreshed T&C: http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...g-elite-page-5
#24
Lead Lap
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I just read the T&C review on Consumer Reports. They complained about mpg's and at-the-limit handling, which is not exactly relevant for your every day commute. They also complained about the Stow 'N Go seats, which are actually optional. So yes not class leading, but definitely very comparable to the Sienna, and you'll note the Sienna falls behind the T&C in cabin materials.
The biggest black mark for them is reliability, and that's not to be understated.
The biggest black mark for them is reliability, and that's not to be understated.
#25
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
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I just read the T&C review on Consumer Reports. They complained about mpg's and at-the-limit handling, which is not exactly relevant for your every day commute. They also complained about the Stow 'N Go seats, which are actually optional. So yes not class leading, but definitely very comparable to the Sienna, and you'll note the Sienna falls behind the T&C in cabin materials.
The biggest black mark for them is reliability, and that's not to be understated.
The biggest black mark for them is reliability, and that's not to be understated.
In contrast, the 99 Sienna has had countless interior issues IMO. Driver's door handle breaking off, seatbelt sensors that won't work right(finally taped over the light), power sliding door that isn't worth a ****, door release buttons on both sliding doors that get stuck on the open position, so you can't open or shut the doors, broken cupholders, etc, etc.
#26
Lexus Fanatic
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Originally Posted by GS3Tek
Design and quality wasn't bad at all (I have low expectations for these brands), but my gawd, the transmission was horrible.![Egads!](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/pat.gif)
With 33k miles, it felt like it was straining. It couldn't hold the rpm at all. Everytime I let off my foot, rpm just drops.
![Egads!](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/pat.gif)
With 33k miles, it felt like it was straining. It couldn't hold the rpm at all. Everytime I let off my foot, rpm just drops.
#27
Lexus Test Driver
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For as weak as the current GC is, it sells dirt cheap. That is what makes it appealing.
Prediction: They will discontinue the GC, then offer a stripped T&C to get the price back to where the GC was. So in the end, they will still be offering a GC, just with a Chysler name on it. After all that switching around and playing with the public's minds, it would just be easier and cheaper to keep the darn GC in the first place.
Prediction: They will discontinue the GC, then offer a stripped T&C to get the price back to where the GC was. So in the end, they will still be offering a GC, just with a Chysler name on it. After all that switching around and playing with the public's minds, it would just be easier and cheaper to keep the darn GC in the first place.
#29
Lexus Fanatic
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Not really. The Plymouth Voyager name was changed to the Chrysler Voyager simply because the parent Plymouth division was dropped, not because the vehicle itself was dropped. In other words they kept the vehicle and simply changed its brand-name. This time, in contrast, they are dropping the actual vehicle (Dodge Caravan), despite the fact that Dodge itself is not going away like Plymouth did.
#30
Lead Lap
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Not really. The Plymouth Voyager name was changed to the Chrysler Voyager simply because the parent Plymouth division was dropped, not because the vehicle itself was dropped. In other words they kept the vehicle and simply changed its brand-name. This time, in contrast, they are dropping the actual vehicle (Dodge Caravan), despite the fact that Dodge itself is not going away like Plymouth did.