TangoRed

Some key points I have to add::
Pontiac's attempt was weak at best. The G8 was too little too late and the Solstice was compromised from the start. Their other tarted up models were lacking in quality and lacked AWD/RWD. It should say something that GM's sportiest models were Chevrolets by Pontiac's demise. (Camaro/Corvette)

I agree with your volume point, but that's why Chrysler is being positioned as the mainstream brand and Dodge as the ancillary brand. It should have no problem doing that, as the range it will be occupying is fairly typical. The sporty version of the Chrysler 200 (the 200S) is hardly a sports sedan. The Mazda6 will still probably have better dynamics. Dodge is going one step further- there will be no eco models, but there will be HiPo versions (like the SRT crossover). In the case of the Dart, the 2.4L I4 will likely be the base engine, indicating that all Dodges will need to have a certain amount of scoot to prove their worth. This will be interesting to say the least.

As I said above, you can’t directly compare Pontiac and GM’s situation to this one. Furthermore, spinning of RAM was a great idea if Dodge is to cultivate a sporting culture. This also allows RAM to focus on commercial vehicles and its workhorse pickups. Dodge will not have rebadged sedans moving forward…creating that unique value proposition.

I’d stop assuming. It’s almost certain Chrysler’s CUV will be based off the FWD minivan platform, which will bring it right in line with its competitors. There’s no need for the additional weight and capability that goes along with the GC platform. This will be a minivan counterpart, something that’s different from what Jeep and Dodge are offering.

Infra

iTrader: (1)

You can't move forward if you're holding on to the past. The GC may sell well, but it's junk compared to it's rivals. It's only advantage is price. As Chrysler moves downmarket and stops trying to represent itself as a premium brand, they can also sell the T&C for the same price.

TangoRed

The GC isn't junk at all. It sells at a lower price point and has less options. It is the same mechanically as the T&C which competes well with the Odyssey and Sienna, so the bones are great. Something has to give if you're selling for $7k less than the Ody (and that's MSRP).

GS3Tek

iTrader: (8)

I agree.

I rented a T+C for 2 days last month.
It looks like the sports edition (didn't see any sport badging) with the vinyl/cloth seat, tight steering, and probably some other equipment.

Design and quality wasn't bad at all (I have low expectations for these brands), but my gawd, the transmission was horrible.
With 33k miles, it felt like it was straining. It couldn't hold the rpm at all. Everytime I let off my foot, rpm just drops.

Talk about major lag (can't tell if it's a horrible dbw design or a weak tranny).........it was pretty much like driving a sling shot: sloooow for a good couple seconds, then BAM! By then, you're ready to hit the brake

I cussed that thing everytime I drove it.

I couldn't be happier to get back in my sienna. Shifting, pick up speed, the drive is so smooth and seamless.

chikoo

I think it will be sold as Chrysler Caravan.

chikoo

That is how I feel everytime when I drive my loaner HS250h. Rubberband slingshot. Feels good to be back in my IS250 after that.

TangoRed

Also going to drop this here, as a comparo with the refreshed T&C: http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...g-elite-page-5

tex2670

I don't think a vast majority of minivan purchasers are analyzing the car the way Car and Driver or any enthusiast mag does. CR review is much more relevant, and I don't think the Dodge/Chrysler minivans have been rated best in class by CR since the 1st gen Sienna came out.

TangoRed

I just read the T&C review on Consumer Reports. They complained about mpg's and at-the-limit handling, which is not exactly relevant for your every day commute. They also complained about the Stow 'N Go seats, which are actually optional. So yes not class leading, but definitely very comparable to the Sienna, and you'll note the Sienna falls behind the T&C in cabin materials.

The biggest black mark for them is reliability, and that's not to be understated.

FrankReynoldsCPA

IMO the Sienna has always been behind the T&C in cabin materials. Our 98 T&C's interior held up very well over the years that we had it(as did the engine and transmission). The only issues we had with said car was the driver's side power window, the A/C quit(at almost 200k miles), and I personally busted the arm rest off the drivers seat(my fault though).

In contrast, the 99 Sienna has had countless interior issues IMO. Driver's door handle breaking off, seatbelt sensors that won't work right(finally taped over the light), power sliding door that isn't worth a ****, door release buttons on both sliding doors that get stuck on the open position, so you can't open or shut the doors, broken cupholders, etc, etc.

mmarshall

What you are probably experiencing is not necessarily transmission-related, but a simple fuel cut-off feature that many modern vehicles with EFI have to increase fuel-economy and cut emissions. Usually it occurs around 1800-2000 RPM when you lift your foot of the gas. The engine computer temporarily cuts the flow of fuel through the injectors until it reaches idle speed, then restores it again to prevent the engine from stalling. Depending on just how well the feature is designed/integrated/refined, you may or may not actually feel it with the vehicle hesitating or slowing down. An additional feature (which IS transmission-related) on some modern cars is the inability of he car to coast in higher gears at lower speeds. On my Buick, for example, when slowing down, the transmission downshifts around 28-30 MPH in the higher gears whether you want it to or not, and that, along with the fuel cutoff, can add also add to a sense of drag. The engineers do that to lessen the load on the brakes when coasting to a stop.

Fizzboy7

For as weak as the current GC is, it sells dirt cheap. That is what makes it appealing.

Prediction: They will discontinue the GC, then offer a stripped T&C to get the price back to where the GC was. So in the end, they will still be offering a GC, just with a Chysler name on it. After all that switching around and playing with the public's minds, it would just be easier and cheaper to keep the darn GC in the first place.

TangoRed

The funniest thing is they've done this before. Plymouth Voyager > Chrysler Voyager > Chrysler Town & Country eL > basic model dropped.

mmarshall

Not really. The Plymouth Voyager name was changed to the Chrysler Voyager simply because the parent Plymouth division was dropped, not because the vehicle itself was dropped. In other words they kept the vehicle and simply changed its brand-name. This time, in contrast, they are dropping the actual vehicle (Dodge Caravan), despite the fact that Dodge itself is not going away like Plymouth did.

TangoRed

Was definitely referring to the fact that the Chrysler Town & Country label has extended down to very basic trim levels in the past, which was what Fizzboy was talking about in his post directly above mine. The Chrysler Voyager became the T&C eL, which came with basically nothing. So in that regard, yes really.