June 2014 Sales Thread
07-02-14, 10:33 AM
#76
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not sure why you are bringing up toyota because we are talking about luxury tier, not mainstream tier. and what is the main reason why lexus isn't selling much in europe?
and sales & profit aren't that important to me. i'm sure most people think walmart is crap but they are #1 in sales and profits by a gigantic margin. and bulk of sales from mb/bmw/audi/lexus are from entry level luxury models. and if the sales/profits 1 & 2, then Jaguar/land rover would finish lower than acura. and IMO, the flagship argument is huge. S class is the king. it represents 'rich'.
and i completely forgot about porsche, and i think porsche is a tier above MB. but we all know porsche don't have enough lineups and too expensive to be a sales leader.
IMO luxury tier should always be about brand perception.
again my criteria is only about perception. 'rich' is the keyword.
and sales & profit aren't that important to me. i'm sure most people think walmart is crap but they are #1 in sales and profits by a gigantic margin. and bulk of sales from mb/bmw/audi/lexus are from entry level luxury models. and if the sales/profits 1 & 2, then Jaguar/land rover would finish lower than acura. and IMO, the flagship argument is huge. S class is the king. it represents 'rich'.
and i completely forgot about porsche, and i think porsche is a tier above MB. but we all know porsche don't have enough lineups and too expensive to be a sales leader.
IMO luxury tier should always be about brand perception.
again my criteria is only about perception. 'rich' is the keyword.
07-02-14, 10:53 AM
#77
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Yes. I've said this in previous threads- you're not going to see CLA sales in large numbers until the end of the summer due to a worldwide shortage. Mercedes sent this alert to dealers all the way back in January.
07-02-14, 01:09 PM
#78
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it does not work that way... Audi sells less because they are still growing... they are having record sales right now. They were never a big brand and you cant tripple your sales overnight... they might reach competition in 3-4-5 years from now in the USA, if everything continues to go perfectly for them.
Lexus sells less right now because they were down after recalls and floods PLUS they have much less models these days. Even after NX and RC are released, Lexus will still have less models than all 3. Lots of growth for Audi, BMW and MB came from lower end models, cars like CLA and X1 and A3 Sedans, cars that Lexus wont have at least for next 2 years.
We know of NX and RC, plus upcoming TX and possibly SC (as well as F models)... but that still leaves CT sedan and CT SUV that all of the germans are pushing right now.... thats significant yearly volume.
Lexus sells less right now because they were down after recalls and floods PLUS they have much less models these days. Even after NX and RC are released, Lexus will still have less models than all 3. Lots of growth for Audi, BMW and MB came from lower end models, cars like CLA and X1 and A3 Sedans, cars that Lexus wont have at least for next 2 years.
We know of NX and RC, plus upcoming TX and possibly SC (as well as F models)... but that still leaves CT sedan and CT SUV that all of the germans are pushing right now.... thats significant yearly volume.
Last edited by swajames; 07-02-14 at 01:26 PM.
07-02-14, 07:36 PM
#79
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I actually think it *totally* works that way... Audi globally sells just as many cars as the other big two. It's in the US where Audi sales lag in comparison, and the simple and obvious reason for that is because MB and BMW make it easier and cheaper to buy or lease a BMW or MB than it is to do the same with an equivalent Audi.
07-02-14, 07:57 PM
#80
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No. BMW & MB outsell Audi in the US because of brand perception and perceived quality of product. If Audi undercut their prices in competing segments, BMW & MB would still outsell Audi here. Regardless of how well they're currently doing in the US, the Audi name does not carry nearly the brand perception and class that MB & BMW do, or Lexus for that matter, and I don't see that changing anytime soon.
07-02-14, 08:33 PM
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Well, I disagree. BMW and MB drive US sales through incentives. Their brand is strong, no doubt, but they make it very easy to buy their products. One arguably feeds the other. I agree Audi and Lexus may still sell fewer cars, but they would close the gap if they threw money at deals they way MB and BMW do.
07-02-14, 08:44 PM
#82
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Not for anything, but this kind of talk is just hearsay. Do you have links to prove that BMW & MB offer higher incentives than Lexus or Audi do? I'm not suggesting that they don't offer incentives, because they all do. But to suggest that the only reason why they're outselling the rest is because MB & BMW are some bargain basement luxury brands that practically give away cars is complete nonsense. Believe me, Audi wants desperately to outsell BMW in the US. But the fact is, more people want to drive a 3 Series (the benchmark of entry level luxury sedans) than a FWD A4. And that has nothing to do with incentives. That has to do with reputation and years upon years of positive reviews on the 3 Series. That brand perception has been developed and is firmly implanted into the minds of potential buyers in the US. Audi does not have that kind of perception here.
07-02-14, 08:54 PM
#83
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I hate I saw what you quoted
. He is wrong of course, Cadillac, Infiniti, Benz, BMW offer the highest incentives. Audi does not want to catch BMW/Benz here as their business proposition is NOT revolving around volume here. All this has been very well documented. Worldwide, it is a different story as Benz/BMW/Audi all sell 1 million vehicles. MPLexus like myself are in the industry and sometimes share some insight (though what MP is sharing is NOTHING new at all and its not a bad thing, he is simply stating that internally BMW/Benz have been given the go ahead to sell how they can whatever they can as they both try to get the sales crown in America. this is NO DIFFERENT than late last year).
Of course BMW/Benz sell b/c they do sell a wide range of fantastic products and have the panache and image to boot. Its a win win. However it is also correct in chasing volume, they are making it easier to obtain one of their vehicles.
Recent expert articles have questioned if chasing all this volume will eventually hurt their image/prestige if the general public begins to feel that it is too accessible and no longer special. I think as long as they make crazy AMG and top end cars they will be fine.
07-02-14, 09:08 PM
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It has nothing to do with offering a high quality product, right? It has nothing to do with the fact that they are known for superior engineering, safety, and performance, right? It has nothing to do with the fact that they offer more product and more product choices than all other luxury brands, right? It has nothing to do with the fact that they have a stellar reputation, right? Audi has no reputation here. And without the RX & ES, Lexus sales in the US would be below Lincoln. But hey, you go right ahead and keep thinking that incentives are the only reason why they are more successful here than Audi and Lexus.
07-02-14, 09:12 PM
#85
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Right, so completely ignore the rest of my post and keep thinking that incentives are the only reason why MB & BMW outsell the rest
It has nothing to do with offering a high quality product, right? It has nothing to do with the fact that they are known for superior engineering, safety, and performance, right? It has nothing to do with the fact that they offer more product and more product choices than all other luxury brands, right? It has nothing to do with the fact that they have a stellar reputation, right? Audi has no reputation here. And without the RX & ES, Lexus sales in the US would be below Lincoln. But hey, you go right ahead and keep thinking that incentives are the only reason why they are more successful here than Audi and Lexus.
It has nothing to do with offering a high quality product, right? It has nothing to do with the fact that they are known for superior engineering, safety, and performance, right? It has nothing to do with the fact that they offer more product and more product choices than all other luxury brands, right? It has nothing to do with the fact that they have a stellar reputation, right? Audi has no reputation here. And without the RX & ES, Lexus sales in the US would be below Lincoln. But hey, you go right ahead and keep thinking that incentives are the only reason why they are more successful here than Audi and Lexus.
07-02-14, 09:16 PM
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Ha! as if they could if they wanted to. Sure, it's easy to say they don't want to catch BMW & MB in sales here but the fact of the matter is, they can't. Audi has about the same brand perception here as Acura. And a couple years ago they weren't even at Acura levels.
07-02-14, 09:50 PM
#87
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It's really not that difficult to grasp.
MB and BMW sell more cars than they otherwise would as they invest more heavily in incentives.
Audi and Lexis sell fewer than they otherwise would as they don't.
In the specific cases of Cadillac and Infinti, they invest more in their own sales as their brands and product (at this time) aren't as strong as the other four premium brands in question.
Again, none of this is difficult to grasp. There's absolutely nothing wrong with any of the business models or strategies, but MB and BMW as one group and Cadillac and Infiniti as the other incentivize their sales and invest in building their market share for different reasons.
MB and BMW sell more cars than they otherwise would as they invest more heavily in incentives.
Audi and Lexis sell fewer than they otherwise would as they don't.
In the specific cases of Cadillac and Infinti, they invest more in their own sales as their brands and product (at this time) aren't as strong as the other four premium brands in question.
Again, none of this is difficult to grasp. There's absolutely nothing wrong with any of the business models or strategies, but MB and BMW as one group and Cadillac and Infiniti as the other incentivize their sales and invest in building their market share for different reasons.
Last edited by swajames; 07-02-14 at 09:54 PM.
07-02-14, 11:16 PM
#88
Re: Lexus Sales
Interesting to see that the GX now sells better than the GS, since April in fact. The GX is selling tremendously right now compared to last year, and it looks like it's sustaining the gains since its mid-cycle refresh. I'm curious how it will affect Lexus plans or rumors to make the RX a 7-seater and the possible introduction of the TX.
Also, the CT gains since refresh has fizzled a bit although it's still up 12% YTD. I wonder why sales of the low-end Lexus model has not caught on unlike the new A3 which went from selling in the mid-hundreds last year to 2,000+ in the past 3 months. It's still unclear to me whether the CT is a success or not, although I guess it's doing well with its best June performance yet since its 2011 introduction.
Interesting to see that the GX now sells better than the GS, since April in fact. The GX is selling tremendously right now compared to last year, and it looks like it's sustaining the gains since its mid-cycle refresh. I'm curious how it will affect Lexus plans or rumors to make the RX a 7-seater and the possible introduction of the TX.
Also, the CT gains since refresh has fizzled a bit although it's still up 12% YTD. I wonder why sales of the low-end Lexus model has not caught on unlike the new A3 which went from selling in the mid-hundreds last year to 2,000+ in the past 3 months. It's still unclear to me whether the CT is a success or not, although I guess it's doing well with its best June performance yet since its 2011 introduction.
07-03-14, 04:32 AM
#89
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Eh I wouldn't go that far. The fact they sell the RS7, A6/S7, Q7, and A8 should tell you that people see Audi as something better than Acura. They don't sell in blistering numbers mind you, but still.
07-03-14, 07:02 AM
#90
I would say that Audi is doing a lot better brand wise than Acura around Chicago land.
I work at one of the big employers and I see a mix of every model of Audi on campus except for the R8.
For Acura, the MDX (no surprise) is the predominant model and no RLX (isn't that a Ralph Lauren brand, whatever).
I work at one of the big employers and I see a mix of every model of Audi on campus except for the R8.
For Acura, the MDX (no surprise) is the predominant model and no RLX (isn't that a Ralph Lauren brand, whatever).