Lexus Unfazed by LS Decline as S Class, Model S Grow
07-08-14, 08:19 AM
#136
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interesting. maybe it's because of familiarity? among african-americans, escalade is the ultimate respect car. i can't stand that thing, but it's everywhere. bling bling culture is deeply rooted in their culture. i respect that because i was into that stuff when i was young. i grew out of it, but most of my friends are still into that stuff. IMO, Caddy is still top 2-3 luxury brand for most african americans.[/
QUOTE]
This post has me cracking up...BS
While Caddy make excellent cars. I don't know one African American personally that owns a Caddy. A Benz is the ultimate respect car. The only people that mostly talk about Caddy are from the South. When the last time you seen an Escalade in a video?
FYI: Caddy is NOT the top 2-3 luxury brand for most African Americans.
Back on topics.
http://www.marketwired.com/press-rel...ns-1691165.htm
http://www.strategicvision.com/press_release.php?pr=52
http://www.blacdetroit.com/core/page...%2F&mode=print
In my opinion Lexus shouldn't worry about the Mercedes S class. They should worry about Tesla. Electric vs Hy
I doubt the new LS will slow down the new S class sales. One thing for sure the new LS will be more reliable. Lexus should stick with what got them to this point and improve on it.
QUOTE]
This post has me cracking up...BS
While Caddy make excellent cars. I don't know one African American personally that owns a Caddy. A Benz is the ultimate respect car. The only people that mostly talk about Caddy are from the South. When the last time you seen an Escalade in a video?
FYI: Caddy is NOT the top 2-3 luxury brand for most African Americans.
Back on topics.
http://www.marketwired.com/press-rel...ns-1691165.htm
http://www.strategicvision.com/press_release.php?pr=52
http://www.blacdetroit.com/core/page...%2F&mode=print
In my opinion Lexus shouldn't worry about the Mercedes S class. They should worry about Tesla. Electric vs Hy
I doubt the new LS will slow down the new S class sales. One thing for sure the new LS will be more reliable. Lexus should stick with what got them to this point and improve on it.
i live in Chicago - and Caddy is extremely popular among african-americans. it's just my opinion. i have no facts. but i did grow up in south side. and i hoop with brothas all the time. IMO caddilac is in a same tier as lexus for many african american folks i've met. behind MB/BMW i guess. again, just my opinion.
Last edited by hlee12; 07-08-14 at 08:25 AM.
07-08-14, 08:26 AM
#137
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ah that's right. a3 is fwd. my friend has one. i told him he is an idiot to buy one.
07-08-14, 08:29 AM
#138
Racer
we all have different opinions, don't we?
i live in Chicago - and Caddy is extremely popular among african-americans. it's just my opinion. i have no facts. but i did grow up in south side. and i hoop with brothas all the time. caddilac is clearly in a same tier as lexus for many african american folks i've met. behind MB i guess.
i live in Chicago - and Caddy is extremely popular among african-americans. it's just my opinion. i have no facts. but i did grow up in south side. and i hoop with brothas all the time. caddilac is clearly in a same tier as lexus for many african american folks i've met. behind MB i guess.
But I post links to backup my opinion. Fact: MB is number one among blacks not Cadillac.
#2 maybe Lexus. See that's my opinion with no facts.
Another fact is that Caucasian seems to perfer Cad more than Blacks. Judging by the links I post.
I do feel Cad is equal to Lexus but the LS is on a different level than anything Cad offer right now.
What's the hold hoopla about the A8 being fwd? The company still offer a AWD version.
Last edited by rogers2; 07-08-14 at 08:40 AM.
07-08-14, 08:44 AM
#139
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I totally agree everyone has opinions.
But I post links to backup my opinion. Fact: MB is number one among blacks not Cadillac.
#2 maybe Lexus. See that's my opinion with no facts.
Another fact is that Caucasian seems to perfer Cad more than Blacks. Judging by the links I post.
But I post links to backup my opinion. Fact: MB is number one among blacks not Cadillac.
#2 maybe Lexus. See that's my opinion with no facts.
Another fact is that Caucasian seems to perfer Cad more than Blacks. Judging by the links I post.
and apparently i'm not the one who thinks this way. just quickly searched and there are many asking the same question. maybe it's because Caddy always has been the symbol of wealth and the hip hop culture has created an illusion that caddy is still the best.
Last edited by hlee12; 07-08-14 at 08:50 AM.
07-08-14, 08:50 AM
#140
the quattro system is a real all wheel drive system that has been evolved over 30+ years. the latest versions can send 85% of torque to the rear wheels.
is the r8 a fwd car with awd always added? no, it's quattro.
.The ugly truth is that Audi is the German equivalent of Acura, just with much better execution, products and marketing. What do I mean by that? Almost all of their products have FWD roots that are masked by a top-notch AWD system...just like Acura (until they cheaped-out on SH-AWD).
07-08-14, 08:55 AM
#141
people don't view it that way. IMO, this is how they stereotype thinks -
1. LS is 'cheap' compared to germans.
2. hyndai/kia flagships are ridiculously 'overpriced' for a non luxury brand. 65k hyundai? lol
normal people probably don't even research like some of us here do. they just compare v8 prices and draw their own conclusion. and i think people don't really include amgs, hybrids, b7 etc in this conversation. conversation is usually about the good old v8.
and you are right, when you go to lexus lot, most LSs are probably priced between 80-95k. i don't think i've seen a stripper version of LS yet. most certainly it was over 80k. also i don't know if ls460 goes over 100k. i never tried to tick all the boxes on the website and haven't seen one at the dealer. i don't think i've seen the l600h.
so basically most people would think comparable S class costs about 20k more. and about 10k more for 7 or A8. that's how i think too. basically about 10-15% discount when you buy LS. so relatively speaking, LS is cheaper alternative to germans.
1. LS is 'cheap' compared to germans.
2. hyndai/kia flagships are ridiculously 'overpriced' for a non luxury brand. 65k hyundai? lol
normal people probably don't even research like some of us here do. they just compare v8 prices and draw their own conclusion. and i think people don't really include amgs, hybrids, b7 etc in this conversation. conversation is usually about the good old v8.
and you are right, when you go to lexus lot, most LSs are probably priced between 80-95k. i don't think i've seen a stripper version of LS yet. most certainly it was over 80k. also i don't know if ls460 goes over 100k. i never tried to tick all the boxes on the website and haven't seen one at the dealer. i don't think i've seen the l600h.
so basically most people would think comparable S class costs about 20k more. and about 10k more for 7 or A8. that's how i think too. basically about 10-15% discount when you buy LS. so relatively speaking, LS is cheaper alternative to germans.
Last edited by Infra; 07-08-14 at 08:59 AM.
07-08-14, 09:04 AM
#142
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Wow, so Lexus is going after the bourgeois... Interesting.
07-08-14, 09:10 AM
#143
If thats the case, why go through the bother of creating a separate brand from Toyota? I mean since Lexus owners are so well informed, they wouldn't care if it was badged a Toyota vs Lexus right?
07-08-14, 09:15 AM
#144
Racer
Moving on...
I really don’t care what an Audi A8/S8 platform is basis off. Most companies don’t have a single car in their line up that can compete with the S8. This freaking thing is a monster.
520 hp… 3.6 0 to 60. Lord If only the car was reliable...
http://www.caranddriver.com/audi/s8
Honestly Lexus should at least give the new LS’s 3 to 4 different engines. Stop with the conservative crap. Toyota you have the money. Spend It.
07-08-14, 09:50 AM
#145
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saying the a8 is a fwd car with awd added is like saying, well... let's just say it's not accurate.
the quattro system is a real all wheel drive system that has been evolved over 30+ years. the latest versions can send 85% of torque to the rear wheels.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quattro...rive_system%29
is the r8 a fwd car with awd always added? no, it's quattro.
the quattro system is a real all wheel drive system that has been evolved over 30+ years. the latest versions can send 85% of torque to the rear wheels.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quattro...rive_system%29
is the r8 a fwd car with awd always added? no, it's quattro.
S class can go over $200k which was unheard of in 1989.
accord and camry pushing 40k? unheard of in 1989.
i was bored and went to GM dealer and i saw a chevy tahoe with a price tag of 74k. unheard of in 1989. i almost puked in disgust.
interesting. maybe it's because of familiarity? among african-americans, escalade is the ultimate respect car. i can't stand that thing, but it's everywhere. bling bling culture is deeply rooted in their culture. i respect that because i was into that stuff when i was young. i grew out of it, but most of my friends are still into that stuff. IMO, Caddy is still top 2-3 luxury brand for most african americans.
accord and camry pushing 40k? unheard of in 1989.
i was bored and went to GM dealer and i saw a chevy tahoe with a price tag of 74k. unheard of in 1989. i almost puked in disgust.
interesting. maybe it's because of familiarity? among african-americans, escalade is the ultimate respect car. i can't stand that thing, but it's everywhere. bling bling culture is deeply rooted in their culture. i respect that because i was into that stuff when i was young. i grew out of it, but most of my friends are still into that stuff. IMO, Caddy is still top 2-3 luxury brand for most african americans.
Unbelievable.
07-08-14, 09:56 AM
#146
Lexus Champion
Give me a break.. Lexus is targeting whoever has the money to purchase their car.
Moving on...
I really don’t care what an Audi A8/S8 platform is basis off. Most companies don’t have a single car in their line up that can compete with the S8. This freaking thing is a monster.
520 hp… 3.6 0 to 60. Lord If only the car was reliable...
http://www.caranddriver.com/audi/s8
Honestly Lexus should at least give the new LS’s 3 to 4 different engines. Stop with the conservative crap. Toyota you have the money. Spend It.
Moving on...
I really don’t care what an Audi A8/S8 platform is basis off. Most companies don’t have a single car in their line up that can compete with the S8. This freaking thing is a monster.
520 hp… 3.6 0 to 60. Lord If only the car was reliable...
http://www.caranddriver.com/audi/s8
Honestly Lexus should at least give the new LS’s 3 to 4 different engines. Stop with the conservative crap. Toyota you have the money. Spend It.
07-08-14, 10:40 AM
#147
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
didn't say that and it's not true. 
i referred to the R8 not a8 there.
that's funny. what's particularly funny is how emphatically fwd is put down on this forum when last month (and probably most months) 2/3rds of u.s. lexus sold are fwd or fwd based awd.
rwd is fun. rwd generally gives better weight balance. rwd generally gives better handling. but when sitting in traffic in a city or cruising on a highway (combined what probably 90% of people do), it's irrelevant.
audi's quattro system is excellent. oh and typically you don't get giant front wheel gaps like on the gs.
Yes and no: You can get the A8 3.0 TDI in FWD, so it's not always AWD. Sometimes it's FWD .
.
The ugly truth is that Audi is the German equivalent of Acura, just with much better execution, products and marketing.
that's funny. what's particularly funny is how emphatically fwd is put down on this forum when last month (and probably most months) 2/3rds of u.s. lexus sold are fwd or fwd based awd.rwd is fun. rwd generally gives better weight balance. rwd generally gives better handling. but when sitting in traffic in a city or cruising on a highway (combined what probably 90% of people do), it's irrelevant.
audi's quattro system is excellent. oh and typically you don't get giant front wheel gaps like on the gs.
07-08-14, 10:47 AM
#148
Except, that's exactly what the A8 is. It's built on VW's MLB front wheel drive architecture that supports AWD (Quattro). This is the same basic architecture that underpins the A4, A5 and A6.
Regardless of how old it is, Quattro is applied to FWD platforms to make them behave more like RWD cars by sending proportionately more power to the rear wheels. The only real exception is the R8 which was based off the Gallardo.
Yes and no: You can get the A8 3.0 TDI in FWD, so it's not always AWD. Sometimes it's FWD.
The ugly truth is that Audi is the German equivalent of Acura, just with much better execution, products and marketing. What do I mean by that? Almost all of their products have FWD roots that are masked by a top-notch AWD system...just like Acura (until they cheaped-out on SH-AWD).
Regardless of how old it is, Quattro is applied to FWD platforms to make them behave more like RWD cars by sending proportionately more power to the rear wheels. The only real exception is the R8 which was based off the Gallardo.
Yes and no: You can get the A8 3.0 TDI in FWD, so it's not always AWD. Sometimes it's FWD
.The ugly truth is that Audi is the German equivalent of Acura, just with much better execution, products and marketing. What do I mean by that? Almost all of their products have FWD roots that are masked by a top-notch AWD system...just like Acura (until they cheaped-out on SH-AWD).
Quattro is not a FWD based system when the engine is mounted longitudinal. The only cars with a FWD based quattro are the A3 & the TT. All others include a center differential that then routes power to rear and front, and the cars can have a rear-biased torque split depending on model.
Let's not pretend the cars in this class are ever being driven to where the advantages of RWD are apparent over AWD. It's certainly easy to show examples of the opposite, however, in inclement weather. It doesn't need to be snowy; for example, AWD reacts much better when driving through standing water during heavy rainstorms in the spring/summer.
Just because one isn't obsessed with the most expensive car doesn't mean one wants to drive the same brand as a mass market car; it's not a dichotomy. Regardless, my response was to someone claiming Lexus is perceived as "cheap" by some people. I'm speaking solely in regards to those people.
07-08-14, 11:02 AM
#149
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didn't say that and it's not true.
i referred to the R8 not a8 there.
that's funny. what's particularly funny is how emphatically fwd is put down on this forum when last month (and probably most months) 2/3rds of u.s. lexus sold are fwd or fwd based awd.
rwd is fun. rwd generally gives better weight balance. rwd generally gives better handling. but when sitting in traffic in a city or cruising on a highway (combined what probably 90% of people do), it's irrelevant.
audi's quattro system is excellent. oh and typically you don't get giant front wheel gaps like on the gs.
i referred to the R8 not a8 there.
that's funny. what's particularly funny is how emphatically fwd is put down on this forum when last month (and probably most months) 2/3rds of u.s. lexus sold are fwd or fwd based awd.rwd is fun. rwd generally gives better weight balance. rwd generally gives better handling. but when sitting in traffic in a city or cruising on a highway (combined what probably 90% of people do), it's irrelevant.
audi's quattro system is excellent. oh and typically you don't get giant front wheel gaps like on the gs.
07-08-14, 11:17 AM
#150
Doh - my bad. You're right!
I don't have any problem with FWD or who sells FWD cars. For most buyers, it's a perfectly good solution. For the record, 95+% of Audi sales and 100% of Acura sales are cars that are FWD or an AWD system on a FWD platform. Mercedes' hottest selling product is FWD. BMW's new global platform for Mini and small cars is FWD. You don't find me poking fun at FWD...it has a perfectly good business case, especially when it puts enough money in the bank to fund fun projects like LFAs, R8s, S8s and RC Fs!
Agree 100%!
There you go with a GS jab...lol. Can't disagree though, as Lexus has a ways to go to make their cars "sit" like Quattro Audis.
Um, I don't have any? The A8 is a great car... that is based on a FWD platform. You're asking two different questions - one about platform architecture and another about FWD-biased vs. RWD-biased AWD systems. From what I can tell, Quattro and SH-AWD are the two best on the market. Does that make you happy? Why are you getting so personal here?
I'm not saying Quattro is an FWD-biased or based system. It's put on FWD cars to make them drive better.
Who is pretending? Not me.
what's particularly funny is how emphatically fwd is put down on this forum when last month (and probably most months) 2/3rds of u.s. lexus sold are fwd or fwd based awd.
rwd is fun. rwd generally gives better weight balance. rwd generally gives better handling. but when sitting in traffic in a city or cruising on a highway (combined what probably 90% of people do), it's irrelevant.
audi's quattro system is excellent. oh and typically you don't get giant front wheel gaps like on the gs.
Please describe the weakness of using a platform that supports both transverse and longitudinal mountings for the engine, if you can. I'd love to hear it. Be specific, nothing like "worse dynamics" or other subjective feelings & emotions if you please, let's stick to quantifiable tangibles, and compare a RWD-based AWD system vs a FWD-based AWD system.
Quattro is not a FWD based system when the engine is mounted longitudinal. The only cars with a FWD based quattro are the A3 & the TT. All others include a center differential that then routes power to rear and front, and the cars can have a rear-biased torque split depending on model.
Let's not pretend the cars in this class are ever being driven to where the advantages of RWD are apparent over AWD. It's certainly easy to show examples of the opposite, however, in inclement weather. It doesn't need to be snowy; for example, AWD reacts much better when driving through standing water during heavy rainstorms in the spring/summer.
Last edited by MPLexus301; 07-08-14 at 11:22 AM.