dseag2

Along those same lines, I love the exterior design of the Tesla, but I can't get past the 17" touch screen "iPad" plopped down in the middle of the dash. If I'm driving a car, it is usually for recreation and I don't want to feel like I'm sitting in my office answering emails. Then again, I don't commute so I'm not stuck in traffic.

I noticed tons of Teslas during my last trip to LA, and with the horrible traffic there I'm sure it is convenient for people to use the technology to check emails, Facebook, etc. while moving 2 inches every 30 minutes. If the Tesla had a more conventional interior I'd be all over it, but then they didn't design it for me.

yowps3

Yeah I've never been impressed by the interior. In contrast the exterior is tipping on perfection.

RXSF

Now that I see a lot more Teslas around, I don't find the exterior as great as I used to. I think the exclusivity and buzz around a "practical" electric car gave me some bias. Now they are everywhere

yowps3

But I guess the awesome drivetrain and sleek exterior helps detract from the interior annoyances..

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

The 'hype' is cooling off

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

true, but i'd be very surprised if sales doubled like in '99!

Carmaker1

I wondered why no one heard from you initially, as the LS is the reason I greatly respect Lexus. The LFA took it much further, but I'm not even a super car person and find myself aligned with more practical vehicles. No matter what lows, Lexus has kept it going and sometime ago in 2010, must've made the decision to keep it longer vis-a-vis Toyoda-san. They did not just haphazardly disappoint me, the way Infiniti did away with the Q45, the very model that garnered my interest in the first place (didn't like pre-facelift V35, only CV35).

To me, it has somewhat felt personal when obviously biased digs are made at any LS generation (sans 1995-1997 model), as I understand the efforts made, whether 100% "original" or not. Never had one in my immediate family, but have experienced each generation, since an uncle in London bought his first LS400 in the early '90s (he died in 1997).

I have not driven an LS F-Sport, but only the LS460L RWD and LS600hL in the last 5 years. Compared to my parents' personal cars, I can say those did feel a bit better regarding handling. Surely Lexus addressed this properly in F-Sport, as it was developed as an improvement over the "Sport" offered between late 2009 and September 2012.

I do hope 2016 is the date for the LS, as I've already said MB are hot on their tail and BMW is making moves. Ten years is way too long. Jaguar while more of a niche brand, is in the process of increasing product appeal. The next XJ is being developed to better match competitors on technological front and with immense reliability improvements, Lexus might need to remember that too.

The LS needs to close the gap on pricing with the S-Class, as unfortunately some people do have an insipid mentality, that if it's much cheaper, there must be a reason behind (i.e. cost-cutting). I've heard some rather materialistic uncles (family friends) stupidly dismiss the LS as, "Too cheap, there's a reason the S-Class is more!" A number of the things Toyota/Lexus have offered exclusively on JDM versions, could have essentially obliterated the standing of German competitors greatly if offered in other markets.

The 1991 Soarer offered first rear-view camera in a production vehicle The 1992 Celsior had GPS NAV and rear HVAC controls+more. L-Select is an example of hopefully better customization. If an LS SWB V8 RWD started at $77,000 (not including 2016 inflation) vs the LWB S550 at $93k, this would allow Lexus more room to insanely package the base model with competitive standard equipment or great attention to detail. The LWB LS could be $83k. There's no need to forever be equally pricing the LS460 to match the 6-cylinder BMW 740i.

I do not work nor specialize in sales/marketing anyway, so what do I know. Going to

The Range Rover is viewed as somewhat a competitor to the LX, but NOT a direct competitor. The LX570 seats 8 passengers (extremely family friendly) and is traditionally body-on-frame (ideal for many world regions), so I do not understand the comparison. Content, price positioning, off-road capability, and luxury wise they are similar.

Concerning overall size and carrying capacity, they are different to me. Despite that, I expect that Toyota also dissects the L405 and also the past L322, as well as vice-versa. I doubt that the current L494 will be of interest though, unless for a RWD-based Lexus 5-seater SUV. I do know that I would only use a Range Rover in a metropolitan area in Africa, while the LX would be a bit less restricting in terms of destinations.

Yep, the W222/V222 is quite lovely. You are very right about that, as the Mercedes-Benz has a standard of completing basic design of an S-Class facelift within 18 months of launch. They are almost done with facelifted S-Class, to begin packaging and further development of new equipment/changes. This is my proof:

W140 came out in mid-1991, MY1995 facelift model photographed in early 1993 was already developed by late 1992 (all pre-1994 W140s had amber turn signals):



W220 came out in October 1998, MY2003 facelift model photographed in 2001 was designed by 2000:



W221 came out in October 2005, MY2010 facelift design S-Class registered on May 24, 2007 was designed by early 2007:





Very rapid. Lexus needs to take that into consideration, as even the next generation S-Class has just entered early development and the facelift is nearing midway through development and design approval. Both the LS and S-Class will offer autonomous driving by 2017, as will the 7-Series and another competitor I shall not name for legal reasons.

The XF40 Series III (2012-present) lost the APGS/IPA feature, which I found absurd when BMW, Audi, and Mercedes-Benz are picking up right on it. The LX will have the option of the LX450d and hopefully an LX600h, based on Japanese reports last year.

As for the Range Rover, it is doing just quite fine actually. I will not argue which one is better (LX and RR), as that's up to everyone else in the market. The L405, like the URJ200 brought significant revolution to the Range Rover line, that invented this class 44 years ago.

They are not 100% directly comparable in my opinion anyway and both companies have surely taken from one another despite that. The UZJ100 LX470 aided development of L322 between 1998-2001, just as I'm sure Toyota studied the L322 between 2002 and 2007 for the current LX570. The current and soon to be replaced Discovery 4/LR4 takes care of what the Range lacks.

Soon enough, everyone will see what both Jaguar and Lexus are capable of bringing to the table in the full-size luxury class. Both the facelifted XF40 LS and the current X351, are heavy reworkings, while the latter had more investment and a longer life cycle. Replacements of both, are surely what will astound as Audi and BMW fail to be more creative.

I agree, but as for Mercedes-Benz, the Gelandewagen is somewhat more a unique vehicle and not exactly parallel to the S-Class at the moment (outside of price). It is ruggedness, utilitarian, and premium luxury in one. The GL is supposed to have that relationship to the S-Class, but is merely an XL M-Class. The in development X167 GL might be going in that direction though. We wouldn't want for the LX to become less family friendly, in seating the same amount as the LS and becoming a bit more rugged like the W463 G-Class.

There are no direct Gelandewagen competitors in my opinion, as the Range Rover is currently a 4-5 seater aluminum monocoque unibody and the LX570 a large 7-8 seater body-on-frame. The G-Class falls between the incumbent Defender and L405 Range Rover as a result. The Defender is not as luxurious.

From my experience, the drive in the LX is bit more cushy than the Gelandewagen, while the Defender is eons different from them both in being quite harsh. The LX and Gelandewagen are both reliable, so typical assumptions about German unreliability have never applied to it.

LexFather

Nice posts cmk1.

My LS will be featured in the next Lexus brochure Very happy!

hlee12

probably caddy escalade is the closest competitor to buyer's eyes. super large luxury suv. well at least that's how i look at it. and nearly 3000 escalade were sold in june.

and i understand your LS is 'too cheap' logic. but i'm sure many buy it because it's cheaper. LS always had value appeal since the beginning. yes, many don't buy it because it's cheaper, but i think LS should always go after the smart rich, not shallow rich(like my uncle, lol).

I8ABMR

right on Mike !!!

jwong77

This! Its really bad in the Silicon Valley where it feels like every other car in our parking lot is a Tesla Model S.

LexFather

How is the LS "Cheap"? This seems to be some internetz lol crap spewed by people who somehow think a 75k car is "cheap" and are not even using google. The LS lists from 72k to a whopping 132k for a loaded 600hL. Most are in the 80k range. the MSRP on my F-sport was 87k and change.

The LS also does not have the lease backing like some of the competitors, it is not an attractive lease car.

The LS also does not offer a base 6 cylinder here, the Panamera, 740, A8 offer that as a base engine. The LS still offers a V-8 only. So for the price of a V-8 LS, you get an 6 cylinder competitor.

The S550 is quite an anomaly since the base car is 95k with the S63 and S65 offered. The last gen hybrid was a V-6 but still pricy. We don't get the smaller engine S-classes Europe has.

Pricing, FACTS based on MSRP

The internet crushes Equus and K900
62k-70k. Thats right they end where the others start. And guess what those cars ain't "cheap". However people are calling the LS cheap, brag about how the Korean flagships sell then don't mention their price. lol

Tesla-70k-120k (not including $7500 tax credit)
LS-72k-132k
7 series- 74k-160k
A8 77k-160k
Panamera-78k-220k
S-class-95k-holy **** k

The majority sold are in the 80-95k range, that is the meat and potatoes of the market. The ones over 100k are very rare sans the Panamera and S-class.

G Star

iTrader: (2)

LS cannot compete at the S-Class level (perception, loyalty, sales) overnight, it needs years of consistent and aggressive branding, promotion (product placement), quality, and design to start chipping away at the S-Class' brand power. This most recent refresh (which was super sexy in my opinion) has begun the onslaught and I know Lexus will make us proud with the next LS.

hlee12

people don't view it that way. IMO, this is how they stereotype thinks -

1. LS is 'cheap' compared to germans.
2. hyndai/kia flagships are ridiculously 'overpriced' for a non luxury brand. 65k hyundai? lol

normal people probably don't even research like some of us here do. they just compare v8 prices and draw their own conclusion. and i think people don't really include amgs, hybrids, b7 etc in this conversation. conversation is usually about the good old v8.

and you are right, when you go to lexus lot, most LSs are probably priced between 80-95k. i don't think i've seen a stripper version of LS yet. most certainly it was over 80k. also i don't know if ls460 goes over 100k. i never tried to tick all the boxes on the website and haven't seen one at the dealer. i don't think i've seen the l600h.

so basically most people would think comparable S class costs about 20k more. and about 10k more for 7 or A8. that's how i think too. basically about 10-15% discount when you buy LS. so relatively speaking, LS is cheaper alternative to germans.

stlgrym3

iTrader: (4)

the key here is powertrain. the current setup in LS is outdated even with the 8 speed auto. for example Audi A8's exterior design hasn't changed a lot since '06, but the powertrain totally changed from gas guzzler V8 to force induction v6 and v8.