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Please don't what I said the wrong way, as I greatly respect you Mr. Burns. My concerns are strictly regarding the illustration and nothing else. Everything on your recent posts about this, have been very excellent and you clearly a lot of hard work into that.
Not at all, we don't have much info to go on with the LS design, so any insights you have to either lend credibility to or disprove the speculation we have is much appreciated
However, the comparisons with LX and RX illustrations are not quite accurate. The timing of when these LS FCEV renders were crafted and published, is far from being parallel to that of the RX and LX.
Those RX shots from a Japanese magazine, may be that of an actual prototype in Japan during 2014. The 2016 LX was reportedly first shown to Lexus personnel, in the form of these leaked shots, on September 18, 2014. These photographs or CGI files were taken/developed around 11-12 months ago. The amount of time required between freeze and production for Land Cruiser updates, is around 2 years and 18 months on the low end.
Something tells me based on my deep JLR development knowledge and my own rudimentary knowledge of Toyota development methods, that if one visited Toyota in December 2013 and had 100% access to every future development (like Akio Toyoda), both the 2016 LX and RX would be sitting there as clay replicas.
Not to go off on an off-topic tangent, but the 2016 LX and RX were basically shown to Japanese journalists or artists ahead of launch. In many instances, the artists are forced to recreate what they were shown from memory via (life-size prototypes or photographs of design) and present them for publication. This happens across several automotive firms.
This photoshopped 2016 RX was definitely the result of the artist/illustrator being shown an actual prototype, as it was too damn accurate to be an insider merely spilling details. Someone had to have firsthand knowledge of that production design. The white and black RX in the Japanese magazine, is likely an actual JDM RHD prototype from December 2014. The blue illustration is the only non-genuine example.
I looked for this photo for 5 billion years and never really found it for months!
Both the LX and RX were rendered just 3-6 months, but not nearly 2 years before market launch. The third-party 5LS rendering is too far out in time to be accurate, that even if the 5LS design was frozen between a late 2013 and mid-2014 window, 99.9% of people outside of Lexus, did not seen it during that time. The first publicised rumblings about the 5LS design, aside from Alain Uyettenhoven in July 2014, was that of rayaans' source in November 2014.
Many times in the past, the LS has been rendered incorrectly, even terribly inaccurate close to reveal. Look at a terrible example of the current model, as well as 2011 illustrations of the 2013 model year facelift or "2014 LS".
That LS FCEV render is clearly a random guess at the design, which only will become more accurate as prototypes begin public rounds and it gets closer launch. I've seen a few magazines take a crack at the X360 XJ saloon, but know very well where everything stands on that front and how they are extremely off-base.
That LS FCEV design is terribly not befitting of an S-Class competitor and I trust that the final design is not like that in any regard. This is actually the first and only render of the 5LS, so one should take it with a grain of salt. Lexus is one brand, where renderings are greatly outdone by the genuine article.
In not really being a direct Lexus insider, I am not really in the position to an "absolute source of reputable accuracy", but have taken notes from past Lexus examples of Japanese renderings. I'll try to provide more past renders for the 4LS from 2003-2005, but will mention that only a few came close. One of them from early 2004 was interesting close, that it gives away that Lexus had already signed off on the 2007 LS design by March 2004. Much of that was designed by 2003. The 5LS is taking much longer, which equals longer lead times.
Nice work on finding that NX photo the RX render is based on.
I guess what struck me regarding the LS renderings was the disparity between the quality of the work shown in the silver rendering:
And the blue rendering:
I quite like the profile of the silver car, but I guess we'll wait and see on the final design. It wouldn't hurt for the final car to showcase a slightly more revolutionary design than the evolutionary render shown above.
Lexus LS that costs >$100k in Japan is not going to push hydrogen gas stations... it would be "halo" hydrogen vehicle. Thats what Mirai is for, as well as upcoming Honda model.
Natural gas makes no sense at all, Japanese dont have oil/gas sources, they need renewable energy storage for next millennium.
It doesn't for Japan, but lexus sells a few cars outside of Japan. If lexus wants to help build a pressence in europe a nat gas car would be a good idea
The sad part is that those "renders" are probably 95% accurate. Those Japanese magazines have been scarily accurate in the past, starting with the 2012 4GS which was shown on the magazines a year before the production model was unveiled. Ruins the surprise of the reveal. And even sadder is that I'm not impressed by those renders right now. The new LS is the car I've been most excited for in the past 3 years.
The sad part is that those "renders" are probably 95% accurate. Those Japanese magazines have been scarily accurate in the past, starting with the 2012 4GS which was shown on the magazines a year before the production model was unveiled. Ruins the surprise of the reveal. And even sadder is that I'm not impressed by those renders right now. The new LS is the car I've been most excited for in the past 3 years.
Curious as to why they couldn't just up the boost on the current 2.0t. It's barely breaking a sweat at its current tune.
Keep in mind the smaller the displacement, the more strained the engine will be and they would likely have to compensate by running higher boost which could potentially affect long term reliability. This rumored 2.5t unit is likely only for China or other countries where engines larger than 3.0 liters are taxed up the wazoo.
Not at all, we don't have much info to go on with the LS design, so any insights you have to either lend credibility to or disprove the speculation we have is much appreciated
Nice work on finding that NX photo the RX render is based on.
I guess what struck me regarding the LS renderings was the disparity between the quality of the work shown in the silver rendering:
And the blue rendering:
I quite like the profile of the silver car, but I guess we'll wait and see on the final design. It wouldn't hurt for the final car to showcase a slightly more revolutionary design than the evolutionary render shown above.
Thanks, I do apologise for the many typos my original post did have. The profile might be somewhat correct, but it was obvious that someone was filling in the blanks, with no further insider input. I think what I hated the most, is the rear end (post-C pillar) of that render. It is way too derivative of the incumbent 40-Series LS, but even uglier with those taillights.
Originally Posted by mordecai
New sketch from a Japanese magazine posted on Lexus Enthusiast. This is the best sketch / render so far.
Much better sketch, but too subdued. It is good news that we're getting something, along the way of speculation. This render is 100% based on the December 2013/January 2014 camouflaged test vehicle. What was this car really? I really want an answer on this or anyone that provide an idea of what they think about this car as well. Some have thought this was the next LS, doing early testing in Hokkaido or a 4-door coupe mule.
Somehow, I am getting the distinct and also extremely disappointing suspicion, that the next generation LS will not be launched next year and was further delayed from original reports of "late 2016". Recent Japanese reports have hinted that the LC will be introduced first on the RWD platform and that goes on sale in January 2017 (SOP from 2016/11). This means the LS will NOT be launched next year, if that is truly the case here.
At this stage, it seems that "May 2017" Japanese Domestic Market launch could be the case and a Summer 2017 introduction worldwide, which the latter date has been a long-running alternative speculation, since about 2013 (via Auto News, etc). Much of the Japanese magazines reporting on this, keep on listing "17-5" for the 5LS, like they've listed "16-11" for the LC and "15-8" for the 4RX.
Is that why a concept will be shown in Tokyo, 18-21 months ahead of "launch"? A January 2017 reveal of the production model will happen instead in Detroit (NAIAS)? I really hope this isn't the case, as that means a 4.5 year cycle for the facelift and overall 10.5 years for XF40 (4LS).
It is getting ridiculous how long this is taking, yet MB has an S-Class facelift coming parallel to the 5LS and they're definitely not sleeping on that W222 success. Not to mention Audi (D5), Infiniti (Q80), new Panamera, and my own firm's plans.
Originally Posted by situman
Curious as to why they couldn't just up the boost on the current 2.0t. It's barely breaking a sweat at its current tune.
I believe that somehow, the 5LS is not only receiving, but debuting all-new Lexus engines across the board. I understand the need to offer 4-cylinders in other markets, but that the 2.0t would not be satisfactory and trickle-down influence will lead to the LS getting a different engine. What Hoovey said, also echoes the proper reasoning for a differing 2.5t unit.