View Poll Results: What should the next LS go after?
Voters: 158. You may not vote on this poll
Next Lexus LS (2018 model)
02-08-17, 11:27 AM
#1771
Lexus Fanatic
Of course you are entitled, you state your thoughts and opinions based on what you read on forums. I state mine based on actually driving various cars, NA V8, twin turbo V6's and single turbo inline 6. If for whatever reason the LS500 had a single turbo then yes it would be very laggy. When you state it will probably be laggy and no amount of gearing will help and suggest laws of physics I jumped in to question that. Tell me which gearing is better for quick acceleration 3.76 or 3.13?
02-08-17, 12:09 PM
#1774
Lexus Fanatic
I have enough confidence in Lexus' engineers that they can do at least as good a job as GM and Hyundai in designing a TTV6 for a large RWD luxury sedan. If you lack that confidence I would question why you ever chose to purchase a Lexus in the first place.
We get it, you don't like it and you aren't going to buy one because it has a TTV6. Not sure by what is served by continuing to beat on it.
Exactly.
Last edited by SW17LS; 02-08-17 at 12:13 PM.
02-09-17, 01:29 AM
#1775
I've tested Benz and Beamer 2.0 Turbos.
My wife has IS200t.
I've tested Beamer 535i i6 TT and Benz E400 V6 TT, but not yet tested new Beamer 540i i6 Turbo.
There is low throttle opening lag on the 4 cylinder turbos.
Meanwhile the 535i and E400 turbos, at part throttle openings have a very peaky torque curve, beginning with a flat spot down low, and then building up to a torque boom as the turbo spools up.
At low throttle openings, before the turbines get a chance to spool up, both the 535i and the E400 have a torque curve that is so "unlike" the flattish torque curve of the GS450h gasoline-electric hybrid.
It is for this reason that Formula 1 Racing Cars are presently allowed to use "electric" turbos.
It is also for this reason that Mercedes are about to release a brand new in-line six also with electric turbos.
If the current crop of conventional turbo motors were perfect, or had a lovely response and torque curves, then Mercedes would be wasting their time developing electric turbos.
Both BMW and Audi have been developing their electric turbos for many years, but they have not yet reached production.
I haven't driven Lexus' new 3.5 TT, but I do suspect it will have the typical turbo throttle response, and peaky torque curve, especially at small throttle openings when the turbine is not on song - in other words, when the turbo propeller is not running at its minimum critical speed.
Hence around the world, engineers aren't just wasting their time, but they are working hard to develop their electric turbos to overcome the problems associated with traditional turbos.
On the bright side, the small capacity turbos deliver tremendous torque and power for 0-60 in just 4.5 seconds, and fuel economy to boot.
Just as the compacts have downsized from atmospheric sixes to 2.0 four cylinder turbos, in the same way, the atmospheric V8's will downsize to 3.5 V6 TT.
An extra "powerful" 3.5 TT ensures that Lexus leads the Germans, rather than follow the Germans!
In the next few years, I would be very surprised if Lexus does not release a small capacity V8 TT; there is nothing to worry about, although forum input always helps to keep the pressure on TMC.
You never know, the 4.0 V8 TT could even come with electric turbos too.
There will come a point in time when TMC will wake up, and they will start to innovate and lead, rather than just follow...
.
My wife has IS200t.
I've tested Beamer 535i i6 TT and Benz E400 V6 TT, but not yet tested new Beamer 540i i6 Turbo.
There is low throttle opening lag on the 4 cylinder turbos.
Meanwhile the 535i and E400 turbos, at part throttle openings have a very peaky torque curve, beginning with a flat spot down low, and then building up to a torque boom as the turbo spools up.
At low throttle openings, before the turbines get a chance to spool up, both the 535i and the E400 have a torque curve that is so "unlike" the flattish torque curve of the GS450h gasoline-electric hybrid.
It is for this reason that Formula 1 Racing Cars are presently allowed to use "electric" turbos.
It is also for this reason that Mercedes are about to release a brand new in-line six also with electric turbos.
If the current crop of conventional turbo motors were perfect, or had a lovely response and torque curves, then Mercedes would be wasting their time developing electric turbos.
Both BMW and Audi have been developing their electric turbos for many years, but they have not yet reached production.
I haven't driven Lexus' new 3.5 TT, but I do suspect it will have the typical turbo throttle response, and peaky torque curve, especially at small throttle openings when the turbine is not on song - in other words, when the turbo propeller is not running at its minimum critical speed.
Hence around the world, engineers aren't just wasting their time, but they are working hard to develop their electric turbos to overcome the problems associated with traditional turbos.
On the bright side, the small capacity turbos deliver tremendous torque and power for 0-60 in just 4.5 seconds, and fuel economy to boot.
Just as the compacts have downsized from atmospheric sixes to 2.0 four cylinder turbos, in the same way, the atmospheric V8's will downsize to 3.5 V6 TT.
An extra "powerful" 3.5 TT ensures that Lexus leads the Germans, rather than follow the Germans!
In the next few years, I would be very surprised if Lexus does not release a small capacity V8 TT; there is nothing to worry about, although forum input always helps to keep the pressure on TMC.
You never know, the 4.0 V8 TT could even come with electric turbos too.
There will come a point in time when TMC will wake up, and they will start to innovate and lead, rather than just follow...
.
Last edited by peteharvey; 02-09-17 at 01:38 AM.
02-09-17, 04:38 AM
#1776
Lexus Test Driver
The conclusions I've been trying to draw are based entirely on turbo types.
Single-scroll versus twin-scroll. That's it.
Fact of the matter I don't know what type of turbo will be in this car. However, I do believe if they were going to use twin-scroll they probably would have said something as it is kind of a big deal, enough so to warrant a mention upon release.
And, based on the assumption it will have just traditional turbo I do believe it will have lag. All turbos exhibit some lag in one form or another imo. However, some turbo types exhibit different behaviors in this regards with twin scroll being better, imo, than single scroll and of course 48 V electrics being even better than any pneumatic turbo out there.
Some people just want to argue for the sake of arguing. That's fine, but it's stupidly obvious and frankly funny to me.
Single-scroll versus twin-scroll. That's it.
Fact of the matter I don't know what type of turbo will be in this car. However, I do believe if they were going to use twin-scroll they probably would have said something as it is kind of a big deal, enough so to warrant a mention upon release.
And, based on the assumption it will have just traditional turbo I do believe it will have lag. All turbos exhibit some lag in one form or another imo. However, some turbo types exhibit different behaviors in this regards with twin scroll being better, imo, than single scroll and of course 48 V electrics being even better than any pneumatic turbo out there.
Some people just want to argue for the sake of arguing. That's fine, but it's stupidly obvious and frankly funny to me.
02-09-17, 05:23 AM
#1777
Lexus Fanatic
The entire point of a discussion forum is to discuss our opinions with each other on a certain topic. I think you're wrong about the lag, based on my experience driving similar engines in similar vehicles from other manufacturers, something you haven't done. If we all just posted our opinions and didn't discuss them the forum would be pretty boring wouldn't it?
IMHO based on what you've said you're actually hoping the engine is laggy and terrible, because you're bitter they aren't using a V8. That's the viewpoint I and others don't understand. Whether that's your intention or not, that's what's coming across.
IMHO based on what you've said you're actually hoping the engine is laggy and terrible, because you're bitter they aren't using a V8. That's the viewpoint I and others don't understand. Whether that's your intention or not, that's what's coming across.
02-09-17, 05:38 AM
#1778
Lexus Test Driver
Well I think you're wrong in assuming driving similar engines will give an indication to what type of lag this car will exhibit.
Weren't you the one that said two different cars with the same 0-60 times will feel different?
And you don't know me and know what cars I've driven. What are you a telepath?
What does it matter what I want? Does it bother you that much? Sorry. Like I said it's not my intention.
Weren't you the one that said two different cars with the same 0-60 times will feel different?
And you don't know me and know what cars I've driven. What are you a telepath?
What does it matter what I want? Does it bother you that much? Sorry. Like I said it's not my intention.
02-09-17, 05:47 AM
#1779
Lexus Fanatic
Different types of engines feel different in their power delivery yes, but these are similar types of engines in similar applications. My question would be why do you seem so adamant that Lexus is going to screw up this engine, and that it's definitely not going to feel as good as these similar engines from other manufacturers?
You've made up your mind and decided not to have an open mind about this engine not only without having driven it, but without having driven similar engines in similar applications from different manufacturers (had you driven these cars you'd have said so). Sorry, but that's bias.
You've made up your mind and decided not to have an open mind about this engine not only without having driven it, but without having driven similar engines in similar applications from different manufacturers (had you driven these cars you'd have said so). Sorry, but that's bias.
02-09-17, 05:55 AM
#1780
Lexus Test Driver
That's funny and ironic. I think you are mistaken on who is lacking the open mind. I've stated what I think and how I based it.
You don't agree and that is within your rights and I sure as heck do not agree with you. And if what I think makes you angry enough to argue, well good then. I'm not sorry.
You don't agree and that is within your rights and I sure as heck do not agree with you. And if what I think makes you angry enough to argue, well good then. I'm not sorry.
02-09-17, 06:12 AM
#1781
Lexus Fanatic
I'm not angry at all, I just think it's very odd that you're this worked up about this engine (your rudeness is what telegraphs that). Why would I be angry? While I wish it was a V8 I've driven this type of engine in this type of car before, and I have no doubt that Lexus can make as refined a TTV6 and GM and Hyundai, if not better.
Anyways, moving on to pricing, had some time yesterday and was building some stuff online, very sparingly optioned I get to $87k on a 740k, so I will be interested to see how Lexus prices the LS500. That to me is the biggest thing, I really don't want to spend 90k+...
Anyways, moving on to pricing, had some time yesterday and was building some stuff online, very sparingly optioned I get to $87k on a 740k, so I will be interested to see how Lexus prices the LS500. That to me is the biggest thing, I really don't want to spend 90k+...
02-09-17, 06:15 AM
#1782
Lexus Test Driver
What's so odd about me talking about potential turbo lag in a car that will have turbo?
Please tell me.
What's odd is that you seem to take great offense at any inference it might have turbo lag? Why does it bother you I'm making that supposition?
No one cares you don't like the looks of it, why do care if I think it might have turbo lag?
That is the question.
Please tell me.
What's odd is that you seem to take great offense at any inference it might have turbo lag? Why does it bother you I'm making that supposition?
No one cares you don't like the looks of it, why do care if I think it might have turbo lag?
That is the question.
02-09-17, 06:28 AM
#1783
Lexus Fanatic
Let's just drop it.
And I do like the looks of it overall.
And I do like the looks of it overall.
02-09-17, 06:57 AM
#1784
One thing about leading, rather than following the Germans. It has always been Lexus MO regarding the LS to follow the Germans, since the first LS. No electric turbos etc. until after the Germans have it for at least 5 years. That has worked for Lexus all these years.
That said, the TTV6 will be fine, a V8 will surely be available if necessary, pricing will be adjusted if necessary.
On a similar note, I've been watching the GSF, which I like, does come with a V8, but was overpriced (around $90K). However, now there are rebates on top discounts that bring down the prices to mid $60's with some. As my lease ends in May, I may pull the trigger on the GSF and then jump into the LS after 2 years. It will be exactly what I need by then.
That said, the TTV6 will be fine, a V8 will surely be available if necessary, pricing will be adjusted if necessary.
On a similar note, I've been watching the GSF, which I like, does come with a V8, but was overpriced (around $90K). However, now there are rebates on top discounts that bring down the prices to mid $60's with some. As my lease ends in May, I may pull the trigger on the GSF and then jump into the LS after 2 years. It will be exactly what I need by then.
02-09-17, 10:20 AM
#1785
What's so odd about me talking about potential turbo lag in a car that will have turbo?
Please tell me.
What's odd is that you seem to take great offense at any inference it might have turbo lag? Why does it bother you I'm making that supposition?
No one cares you don't like the looks of it, why do care if I think it might have turbo lag?
That is the question.
Please tell me.
What's odd is that you seem to take great offense at any inference it might have turbo lag? Why does it bother you I'm making that supposition?
No one cares you don't like the looks of it, why do care if I think it might have turbo lag?
That is the question.