View Poll Results: What should the next LS go after?
Voters: 158. You may not vote on this poll
Next Lexus LS (2018 model)
02-17-17, 10:09 AM
#1891
Lexus Fanatic
Agreed, this has certainly always been my experience when encountering people in my Lexus vehicles.
02-17-17, 10:20 AM
#1892
Lexus Test Driver
There is a reason why historically the RWD and the higher priced models dont sell as well compared to the Germans.
Lexus really needs to step up their Marketing for the new LC and LS launch.
02-17-17, 10:32 AM
#1893
Lexus Fanatic
Lexus really needs to step up their Marketing for the new LC and LS launch.
02-17-17, 11:04 AM
#1894
Lexus Fanatic
There are many brands considered prestigious luxury brands, some more then others, I don't deny that Lexus is a prestigious luxury brand but it is not on the same level as Mercedes or BMW, even Audi in my opinion especially around the world but still plenty of people do choose Lexus over Mercedes or BMW because not everyone is so hung up on prestige and brand power. While many people consider Lexus a prestigious luxury brand, many people do think Lexus as more of just fancy Toyota's, I have heard it several times. I think the G90 is a legitimate competitor to the LS and it is not out of place being brought up in this thread even if the Genesis brand does not carry the same prestige and branding as Lexus.
02-17-17, 01:09 PM
#1895
Lead Lap
To a layman, you can pull up in a 17 CR-V and they`d be wooed in every aspect. Semi autonomous capabilities, fine wood trim, plush seats. "For all intensive purposes" its an upscale car.
To a layman, you can even pull up in a Acura or a Porsche, as a long as you say luxury you can pass.
To a car enthusiast, they know more, and hence have degrees of luxury. You say Luxury ES, they think upscale Camry. You say RX, they think edgier smaller highlander. etc etc.
To a layman, you can even pull up in a Acura or a Porsche, as a long as you say luxury you can pass.
To a car enthusiast, they know more, and hence have degrees of luxury. You say Luxury ES, they think upscale Camry. You say RX, they think edgier smaller highlander. etc etc.
02-17-17, 01:54 PM
#1896
Lexus Fanatic
To a layman, you can pull up in a 17 CR-V and they`d be wooed in every aspect. Semi autonomous capabilities, fine wood trim, plush seats. "For all intensive purposes" its an upscale car.
To a layman, you can even pull up in a Acura or a Porsche, as a long as you say luxury you can pass.
To a car enthusiast, they know more, and hence have degrees of luxury. You say Luxury ES, they think upscale Camry. You say RX, they think edgier smaller highlander. etc etc.
To a layman, you can even pull up in a Acura or a Porsche, as a long as you say luxury you can pass.
To a car enthusiast, they know more, and hence have degrees of luxury. You say Luxury ES, they think upscale Camry. You say RX, they think edgier smaller highlander. etc etc.
02-17-17, 02:34 PM
#1897
Lexus Fanatic
Knowledge of the brand comes with time.
FWIW I remember a time when we had our first Lexus, and we encountered people who did not know what a Lexus was. I remember my aunt calling it an "Alexis" and that was 8 years into Lexus' existence.
FWIW I remember a time when we had our first Lexus, and we encountered people who did not know what a Lexus was. I remember my aunt calling it an "Alexis" and that was 8 years into Lexus' existence.
02-17-17, 03:19 PM
#1898
A car is the sum of its parts.
A car is made from many individual facets/parameters, all added together to finish with a single product.
The individual parameters include: name/badge/heritage/pedigree/prestige [call it what you like], styling, space, ergonomics, performance, economy, handling, manoeuvrability, comfort etc etc.
The important point is that each individual person "weighs" [prioritizes] each individual parameter differently.
For example, Steve and I place a high priority on comfort, while someone like Metrathon prioritizes 0-60, while Sulu might emphasize economy and the environment etc etc.
Although each individual person weighs the individual categories differently, there is an overall market/industry "average".
On average, the highest weighting goes to the name/badge/heritage/pedigree/prestige. When people don't know much about something like microscopes etc, they always go for a famous brand name like Olympus, in this case.
The layman buyer [mums & dads] who know little about motor cars also place a higher weighting on the name/badge.
Enthusiasts like CL Forum members are more knowledgeable, and place a higher emphasis on the car itself, rather than the name/badge.
Next up is often the styling.
Then the space, then performance, then economy, etc etc.
These individual parameters and their order of priority have been surveyed many many times before, but I'm just too lazy to post a link.
It is the sum of the individual factors that determines the final results for an individual.
If a car falters in one category, it can make up in another.
If a car falters in a category with high weighting, then it must really really make up in categories of much lower weighting.
For example, the 2007 4LS doesn't quite have the Benz nor Beamer badge, but the 2007 4LS looks nice, is spacious, has a lusty V8, decent handling, and lovely ride comfort etc etc, then we can understand why the 4LS debuted with some 35,000 units.
The midsize Hyundai Genesis G80 is very woeful on the badge front, however it is decently style if not a bit bland, is extremely huge and spacious, and rides very nicely, hence the midsize Genesis G80 debuted with something like a decent 30,000+ units.
The full size Genesis G90 is also very weak on the badge front, however I suspect that it is not as equivalently well styled as the midsize G80.
Furthermore, in the full size luxury market, buyers are more snobbish and prioritize the badge more than the midsize luxury market.
Thus, I can understand why the full size G90 is selling well well below the S Class' debut several years ago.
.
A car is made from many individual facets/parameters, all added together to finish with a single product.
The individual parameters include: name/badge/heritage/pedigree/prestige [call it what you like], styling, space, ergonomics, performance, economy, handling, manoeuvrability, comfort etc etc.
The important point is that each individual person "weighs" [prioritizes] each individual parameter differently.
For example, Steve and I place a high priority on comfort, while someone like Metrathon prioritizes 0-60, while Sulu might emphasize economy and the environment etc etc.
Although each individual person weighs the individual categories differently, there is an overall market/industry "average".
On average, the highest weighting goes to the name/badge/heritage/pedigree/prestige. When people don't know much about something like microscopes etc, they always go for a famous brand name like Olympus, in this case.
The layman buyer [mums & dads] who know little about motor cars also place a higher weighting on the name/badge.
Enthusiasts like CL Forum members are more knowledgeable, and place a higher emphasis on the car itself, rather than the name/badge.
Next up is often the styling.
Then the space, then performance, then economy, etc etc.
These individual parameters and their order of priority have been surveyed many many times before, but I'm just too lazy to post a link.
It is the sum of the individual factors that determines the final results for an individual.
If a car falters in one category, it can make up in another.
If a car falters in a category with high weighting, then it must really really make up in categories of much lower weighting.
For example, the 2007 4LS doesn't quite have the Benz nor Beamer badge, but the 2007 4LS looks nice, is spacious, has a lusty V8, decent handling, and lovely ride comfort etc etc, then we can understand why the 4LS debuted with some 35,000 units.
The midsize Hyundai Genesis G80 is very woeful on the badge front, however it is decently style if not a bit bland, is extremely huge and spacious, and rides very nicely, hence the midsize Genesis G80 debuted with something like a decent 30,000+ units.
The full size Genesis G90 is also very weak on the badge front, however I suspect that it is not as equivalently well styled as the midsize G80.
Furthermore, in the full size luxury market, buyers are more snobbish and prioritize the badge more than the midsize luxury market.
Thus, I can understand why the full size G90 is selling well well below the S Class' debut several years ago.
.
Last edited by peteharvey; 02-17-17 at 03:34 PM.
02-17-17, 03:38 PM
#1899
A car is the sum of its parts.
A car is made from many individual facets/parameters, all added together to finish with a single product.
The individual parameters include: name/badge/heritage/pedigree/prestige [call it what you like], styling, space, ergonomics, performance, economy, handling, manoeuvrability, comfort etc etc.
The important point is that each individual person "weighs" [prioritizes] each individual parameter differently.
For example, Steve and I place a high priority on comfort, while someone like Metrathon prioritizes 0-60, while Sulu might emphasize economy and the environment etc etc.
Although each individual person weighs the individual categories differently, there is an overall market/industry "average".
On average, the highest weighting goes to the name/badge/heritage/pedigree/prestige. When people don't know much about something like microscopes etc, they always go for a famous brand name like Olympus, in this case.
The layman buyer [mums & dads] who know little about motor cars also place a higher weighting on the name/badge.
Enthusiasts like CL Forum members are more knowledgeable, and place a higher emphasis on the car itself, rather than the name/badge.
Next up is often the styling.
Then the space, then performance, then economy, etc etc.
These individual parameters and their order of priority have been surveyed many many times before, but I'm just too lazy to post a link.
It is the sum of the individual factors that determines the final results for an individual.
If a car falters in one category, it can make up in another.
If a car falters in a category with high weighting, then it must really really make up in categories of much lower weighting.
For example, the 2007 4LS doesn't quite have the Benz nor Beamer badge, but the 2007 4LS looks nice, is spacious, has a lusty V8, decent handling, and lovely ride comfort etc etc, then we can understand why the 4LS debuted with some 35,000 units.
The midsize Hyundai Genesis G80 is very woeful on the badge front, however it is decently style if not a bit bland, is extremely huge and spacious, and rides very nicely, hence the midsize Genesis G80 debuted with something like a decent 30,000+ units.
The full size Genesis G90 is also very weak on the badge front, however I suspect that it is not as equivalently well styled as the midsize G80.
Furthermore, in the full size luxury market, buyers are more snobbish and prioritize the badge more than the midsize luxury market.
Thus, I can understand why the full size G90 is selling well well below the S Class' debut several years ago.
.
A car is made from many individual facets/parameters, all added together to finish with a single product.
The individual parameters include: name/badge/heritage/pedigree/prestige [call it what you like], styling, space, ergonomics, performance, economy, handling, manoeuvrability, comfort etc etc.
The important point is that each individual person "weighs" [prioritizes] each individual parameter differently.
For example, Steve and I place a high priority on comfort, while someone like Metrathon prioritizes 0-60, while Sulu might emphasize economy and the environment etc etc.
Although each individual person weighs the individual categories differently, there is an overall market/industry "average".
On average, the highest weighting goes to the name/badge/heritage/pedigree/prestige. When people don't know much about something like microscopes etc, they always go for a famous brand name like Olympus, in this case.
The layman buyer [mums & dads] who know little about motor cars also place a higher weighting on the name/badge.
Enthusiasts like CL Forum members are more knowledgeable, and place a higher emphasis on the car itself, rather than the name/badge.
Next up is often the styling.
Then the space, then performance, then economy, etc etc.
These individual parameters and their order of priority have been surveyed many many times before, but I'm just too lazy to post a link.
It is the sum of the individual factors that determines the final results for an individual.
If a car falters in one category, it can make up in another.
If a car falters in a category with high weighting, then it must really really make up in categories of much lower weighting.
For example, the 2007 4LS doesn't quite have the Benz nor Beamer badge, but the 2007 4LS looks nice, is spacious, has a lusty V8, decent handling, and lovely ride comfort etc etc, then we can understand why the 4LS debuted with some 35,000 units.
The midsize Hyundai Genesis G80 is very woeful on the badge front, however it is decently style if not a bit bland, is extremely huge and spacious, and rides very nicely, hence the midsize Genesis G80 debuted with something like a decent 30,000+ units.
The full size Genesis G90 is also very weak on the badge front, however I suspect that it is not as equivalently well styled as the midsize G80.
Furthermore, in the full size luxury market, buyers are more snobbish and prioritize the badge more than the midsize luxury market.
Thus, I can understand why the full size G90 is selling well well below the S Class' debut several years ago.
.
02-17-17, 05:59 PM
#1900
Lexus Fanatic
The whole it has a V8 thing is irrelevant.
You can, of course, make the argument (and you would be correct in doing so) that Genesis, like Lincoln (and unlike Lexus), does not currently have stand-alone dealerships.....but those are on the horizon as more money and resources become available.
Last edited by mmarshall; 02-17-17 at 06:13 PM.
02-17-17, 07:14 PM
#1901
Lead Lap
Genesis is doing almost exactly the same thing, from a Korean standpoint, that Lexus/Infiniti did in 1990...and, to a lesser extent, Acura in 1986, from a Japanese standpoint. The reason the public is not as well-informed on the Genesis Division today is that the automotive media, despite the significance of Genesis, is simply not giving that division the same level of coverage it did to Lexus and Infiniti in 1990-1991 with the original Lexus LS400 and Infiniti Q45. And, even with a lot of press coverage at the time, the original Infiniti Q45 never took off because it was poorly executed and marked (as were its 2nd and 3rd-generation successors, which could never really decide what their image was going to be).
Again, while I respect your opinion, I disagree. It is very relevant. In a flagship sedan that starts at nearly 70K, the fact that it has a N/A V8, while the even more expensive 2018 LS makes do with a forced-induction V6, is not something to be casually overlooked. The original LS400, one of the most successful luxury sedans of all time, would not have dreamed of using a V6....at least in the American market. Of course, tightening government CAFE and emission standards are putting a downward sizing of some engines (that's a given)....but Genesis has obviously found a way to (still) use a nice V8 and meet the law's demands.
You can, of course, make the argument (and you would be correct in doing so) that Genesis, like Lincoln (and unlike Lexus), does not currently have stand-alone dealerships.....but those are on the horizon as more money and resources become available.
Again, while I respect your opinion, I disagree. It is very relevant. In a flagship sedan that starts at nearly 70K, the fact that it has a N/A V8, while the even more expensive 2018 LS makes do with a forced-induction V6, is not something to be casually overlooked. The original LS400, one of the most successful luxury sedans of all time, would not have dreamed of using a V6....at least in the American market. Of course, tightening government CAFE and emission standards are putting a downward sizing of some engines (that's a given)....but Genesis has obviously found a way to (still) use a nice V8 and meet the law's demands.
You can, of course, make the argument (and you would be correct in doing so) that Genesis, like Lincoln (and unlike Lexus), does not currently have stand-alone dealerships.....but those are on the horizon as more money and resources become available.
02-18-17, 07:01 AM
#1902
Lexus Fanatic
Depends, the landscape is very different then it was when Lexus launched the LS400. The standard smooth V8 was launched in response to what Lexus believed to be competitive during that time. Now priorities have changed to a certain degree.
02-18-17, 07:42 AM
#1903
Lexus Fanatic
But they need easily accessible showrooms if they're going to sell the G90...right now not even 1/3rd of Hyundai dealers sell them.
02-18-17, 07:51 AM
#1904
Lexus Fanatic
Same with the Kia K900. Its sales are basically just a trickle.....partly because only select Kia shops sell and service it.
Still, at least as I see it, that would not be a major issue if the brand got more publicity in the press, and more people become aware of it. As has been pointed out a number of times, the general public simply doesn't follow the auto business like we do here on the forums.
02-18-17, 07:55 AM
#1905
Lexus Fanatic
Lincoln is actually in a better position that Genesis insofar as the G90. The G80 is sold in every Hyundai dealer, but G90s are way fewer and further between than Lincoln dealers. For instance to buy a Lincoln I can go down the street to Sheehy Ford/Lincoln, I can go to Koons Ford/Lincoln in Silver Spring. To drive a G90 I had to drive all the way to Chantilly, VA, which is rush hour is over an hour from me, with no traffic its a solid 40-45 minutes. Not a lot of buyers would do that.