e325rkh

Similar to what SW15 and Hoovey2411 just said, the LS is not on the same tier as the German flagships. The whole Lexus line was designed as badge engineered versions of the Toyota models, while the LS was always the only standalone model, originally reverse engineered versions of the Germans (originally the E class) with Toyota reliability and a cheaper price. As the price creeps up, the buyer then asks why would I get the Lexus when the leaders (innovation and prestige) are similar in price. I believe the GS90 is designed to compete with that second tier - LS, Continental, CT6, etc. if the GS90 was similar in price to the Lexus (which it isn't), why would one choose it over the LS.

I like the new LS, as it is less of a copy and more original JDM (Infiniti notwithstanding). However, I don't see what you are seeing that now puts it in the same tier as the Germans.

SW17LS

It will absolutely cost more. Base close to 80 I'm good with (over 80, but less than 85). Base 90+, goodbye.

mmarshall

Well, in your case, since you lease, it would seem that monthly lease-payments would be more of a factor than absolute list price, unless you were contemplating a buyout after the lease. Then, of course, depreciation would be a factor. That's where the G90 would probably have a big advantage over an LS.......buying one out after 2-4 years. It would almost certainly depreciate more than an LS.....at least for now, until the brand starts getting more traffic.

SW17LS

But the lease cost increases with the acquisition cost. Lexus never has GREAT leases, so the only way they're cheaper than the big boys is because the car itself is cheaper.

coolsaber

I put the LS in the same category as the 7 and S class, however they offer different experiences.

SW17LS

I'd call it a half step below. Something like a CT6 is a full step below.

Toys4RJill

Just my thoughts and opinions on the subject. Lexus has finally gotten to the point where their brand needs to move further upscale at the top end of the market compared to where they were in the past. This positioning will keep them ahead of Cadillac, Lincoln, and Genesis (which nobody knows is even a brand let alone a luxury brand). The upcoming release of the LC500 is the first time I have seen Lexus price their product at a price point that is of a higher value than past Lexus models. I didn't think the price would be that high, but it is. Next comes a convertible, or a LC-F, or whatever is next. The new LS500 will follow. I would not leave off a LS-coupe the table. Volume is done in the flagship segment, I don't have the stats handy but I believe sales in this segment have stayed flat for a number of years. The only car that is in the price point of flagships that has gained market share is the Tesla model S. Other people can debate the merits of whether the Model S is a luxury car, I firmly believe it is.

Also, the next gen ES is going to get a serious upgrade in prestige and price range. I am confident and fully behind the notion that the gen ES will top out $60K + US. It may even offer AWD and more than likely a turbo engine will be offered....So here is some food for thought to chew on, the current Buick Lacrosse starts at $32K and tops out a $50.5K...Why wouldn't you charge more for a Lexus ES? There are people spending up to $57K on a Lincoln MKZ AWD....Do you think Lexus has not seen the market for this segment?

Lexus is the better brand compare to Lincoln, Cadillac, or Genesis, why wouldn't you charge more a next gen ES or a LS500 as it relates to the discussion of this thread?

e325rkh

All good points, thank you. One item of note, Lincoln, Cadillac and Buick inflate their MSRP and the use huge discounts to move inventory. I didn't think Lexus ever wants to do that. The one recent time I recall them doing the huge discounts is the GSF. But I think they priced it too had and had to correct, that wasn't their original intention.

SW17LS

I have no issue with a nicely finished ES getting close to 60k loaded, especially if the GS is no more. But, for that money it should not ride on a transverse Toyota platform IMHO.

The problem with Lexus charging more is quite frankly, their mainstream transverse products aren't actually very impressive vehicles. If the RX and ES were on true Lexus RWD platforms I would say they could charge that much.

BrickHead

I think that's the most accurate statement.

Toys4RJill

Thanks for the compliment. You are right, Lexus has never wanted to offer large discounts on their cars. I am not sure what the discounts are for the Lincoln and Buick, but I would bet Lexus is not going to leave money on the table, the Lexus ES will move up in price. As for the GS, I don't think the huge discounts are a concern, the GS range starts at $46K and tops out at $88K, that is almost double what the base model starts at. They are clearly making a huge profit of the GSF. This is what I was saying about pricing early, the range of price points is going to be much larger to cover a large demographic, the growth of the US market hit an all time peak, it is very unlikely that Lexus (and others) will move more volume, instead charging more is the way to go. If you check out the Lincoln Continental pricing, it starts are $44K and can be topped out at $81K. As the new LS, it makes no sense for them not to charge more, by pricing the new LS higher, you put value on the brand. For the first time, the auto press are going gush over cars like the new LC500 and the LS500 (so far what they have seen). Why wouldn't they want to charge more and make more money? Do you agree?

mmarshall

The public doesn't seem to agree that these two vehicles are unimpressive......the proof is in the pudding. They sell in big numbers, and are considered the two bread-and-butter products for Lexus. If the public, as a whole, didn't find them very impressive for the price, there would not be that kind of demand for them.

e325rkh

Are we talking about the price they current are (and where they are selling big numbers) or the higher anticipated amounts?

Toys4RJill

Most of the population in North America are satisfied with FWD. There are trade offs on both ends. Generally speaking, FWD is more efficient for sizing and efficiency. I believe the ES350 is just as large inside as a LS and I think it is bigger than the GS inside. The North America market is dominated by fuller sized efforts than they are smaller size or 7/8ths offerings.

coolsaber

To add on to that, I used to be in agreement with SW15LS on FWD platforms are unimpressive. However a couple of points make a strong case for my current view point.

-OPTICS. Lexus's corporate brand image as a whole as been superior comfort, smoothness, and reliability. Yes the oddly satisfying LFA, beastly F series (no F sport) were aimed at changing that, but to be honest I dont see dealers begging Lexus to build more performance into the existing lineup.

-Based off the above, why if any motivation does Lexus as MFG have to redesign things from the ground up. Heck, the RX is slaying the more traditional RWD platforms every day.

TL : DR Brand image for Lexus is primarily unrelated with performance. Customers are loving driving and jiving with the current lineup,. Lexus is making bank. Why fix things that are not broken?