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Mechanically the LS shares 400 HP V6s with the aforementioned. I wouldn't consider the CT6 or Conti anywhere near the Germans because of that criteria. They are all "$80k," assuming the LS is the same (or god forbid more).
There was a time when the LS and S could be said in the sentence, but it's not case anymore I guess.
Mechanically the LS shares 400 HP V6s with the aforementioned. I wouldn't consider the CT6 or Conti anywhere near the Germans because of that criteria. They are all "$80k," assuming the LS is the same (or god forbid more).
There was a time when the LS and S could be said in the sentence, but it's not case anymore I guess.
What about the lower powered 6 cyl engines in the German competition? You just ignore those. A car doesn't have to be another cars peer in every way to compete with it at all. Somebody looking for a $120,000 S550 or 750 or S8 is not going to look at an LS no, but they never have.
I've been shopping for and buying LS sedans for 17 years, it has ALWAYS been this way. The LS has always been an alternative for low optioned German flagship cars, but those cars were always unquestionably a step above when they got optioned with their better engines, etc.
Like it or not, most flagships are 6cyl power. This LS competes very well with a 740, or a 6cyl A8, I think pricing will be similar, it will have much better power. The S550? 750? It's on another level but then again, it always has been. Lest you forget the "750" used to be a V12, where's the outrage there?
My V8 (and your) LS460 stickered at $79k, in the same league as a $97k to start S550 because it has a V8? In your dreams. That car is $20,000 more expensive than my non base AWD LS, it's totally in another league.
There was a time when the LS and S could be said in the sentence, but it's not case anymore I guess.
Originally Posted by SW15LS
I've been shopping for and buying LS sedans for 17 years, it has ALWAYS been this way. The LS has always been an alternative for low optioned German flagship cars, but those cars were always unquestionably a step above when they got optioned with their better engines, etc.
I'll admit that I haven't had actual LS ownership experience like you two, but, based solely on my reviews and test-drives (and I don't always write up everything I sample) I don't think that either of you are giving the LS enough credit. Sure, one can argue all day over whether it needs a V8 or if a TTV6 will do. But, over and above that, the LS is truly a benchmark when it comes to one thing....refinement. Though the 460 is not quite as smooth over bumps as the previous 430, in general, IMO, it is the the ideal hushed, quiet, relaxing cocoon that one would want to get into, after a hard, tiring day at work, for a nice drive home. I'd probably have one myself (I can afford one) if my condo parking space was a little larger. (That, of course, probably also rules out a new Continental, which I like)
(As it is, I'm looking primarily at something in the ES/MKZ/LaCrosse class next time around, partly because of the parking-space issue).
What about the lower powered 6 cyl engines in the German competition? You just ignore those. A car doesn't have to be another cars peer in every way to compete with it at all. Somebody looking for a $120,000 S550 or 750 or S8 is not going to look at an LS no, but they never have.
I've been shopping for and buying LS sedans for 17 years, it has ALWAYS been this way. The LS has always been an alternative for low optioned German flagship cars, but those cars were always unquestionably a step above when they got optioned with their better engines, etc.
Like it or not, most flagships are 6cyl power. This LS competes very well with a 740, or a 6cyl A8, I think pricing will be similar, it will have much better power. The S550? 750? It's on another level but then again, it always has been. Lest you forget the "750" used to be a V12, where's the outrage there?
My V8 (and your) LS460 stickered at $79k, in the same league as a $97k to start S550 because it has a V8? In your dreams. That car is $20,000 more expensive than my non base AWD LS, it's totally in another league.
Isn't a 6 cylinder S Class coming for next year? If the below is correct, the LS500 should compete very well with the other 6 cylinder competition.
We will get a new entry-level S-class, to be called S450, that will employ the M276 twin-turbocharged V-6 as found in today’s GLS450 and the SL450, where it’s rated at a generous 362 horsepower. To put it into perspective, that’s just 27 horsepower short of the iconic 6.0-liter V-12 launched in the W140 S-class.
I'm not forgetting or discounting the V6 versions anymore than you are forgetting or discounting the V8 versions of the Germans. The entire lineup defines it and a few has something the other doesn't.
I'm not forgetting or discounting the V6 versions anymore than you are forgetting or discounting the V8 versions of the Germans. The entire lineup defines it and a few has something the other doesn't.
Not sure if this was directed at me, but if so, no I am not forgetting about the V8 competition. I was only commenting on the 6 cylinder competition, but I'm not overly concerned about the V8 competition because I don't believe the LS will be without a V8 for long.
Don't get me wrong, I love my LS. It's a wonderful car, I've had 3...but it's not the only car in the world, and there are in fact cars that are better in different ways.
I will maintain, that consistently over time the S Class and 7 Series have been superior cars. Now, they're not as reliable, they're a good bit more expensive. They don't hold their value as well. These are trade offs.
BUT, if I'm going to spend the same money dollar for dollar, I'm going to buy one of them.
I'll admit that I haven't had actual LS ownership experience like you two, but, based solely on my reviews and test-drives (and i don't always write up everything I sample) I don't think that either of you are giving the LS enough credit. Sure, one can argue all day over whether it needs a V8 or if a TTV6 will do. But, over and above that, the LS is truly a benchmark when it comes to one thing....refinement. Though the 460 is not quite as smooth over bumps as the previous 430, in general, IMO, it is the the ideal hushed, quiet, relaxing cocoon that one would want to get into, after a hard, tiring day at work, for a nice drive home. I'd probably have one myself (I can afford one) if my condo parking space was a little larger. (That, of course, probably also rules out a new Continental, which I like)
(As it is, I'm looking primarily at something in the ES/MKZ/LaCrosse class next time around, partly because of the parking-space issue).
mmarshall, when you say that the 460 is not quite as smooth as the older 430, are you referring to the original 2007 4LS, or are you referring to the major mid-life updated 2012 4.5LS?
Is this deterioration in ride due to the 4.5LS's lower profile tires?
Did the 4.5LS have firmer front springs, firmer shockies or firmer roll bars?
mmarshall, when you say that the 460 is not quite as smooth as the older 430, are you referring to the original 2007 4LS, or are you referring to the major mid-life updated 2012 4.5LS?
Is this deterioration in ride due to the 4.5LS's lower profile tires?
Did the 4.5LS have firmer front springs, firmer shockies or firmer roll bars?
I'm not so sure I agree with that having had both. The 460 feels different, its feels sportier, but if you closed your eyes and rode along I think you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference. In my opinion a lot of it is tire pressure. Newer Lexus cars recommend higher pressures to improve fuel economy. As an example my 2003 ES300 recommended 29 PSI, my 2010 ES350 recommended 31, the modern ES350 on the same 17" wheels recommends 33, as does my LS460.
My 98 LS400 recommended 29, my LS430 was I believe 30 (it had 17s). If I run my LS460 at 30-31 vs 33 the ride is notably softer. So...thats what I do.
Big difference between the 400/430 and the 460 is handling. Lots of dive and pitch and heavy roll in turns in my 400 and 430 (especially the 430, overall I preferred the ride/balance of the LS400), but the LS460 is a notably flatter handler. Now, my 400 and 430 were air suspension and my 460 is not, but I have driven air suspension 460s and find them similar.
I would say an LS460 on 18s rides perhaps slightly firmer than an LS430 on 17s, and better than an LS430 on 18s. LS460s on 19s ride similar to LS430s on 18s.If you look at tires that makes sense, LS430 on 17s run 55 series tires, on 18s they run 45. On the LS460 on 18s they run 50 series rubber, 45 on 19s. The 4.5 LS doesn't have lower profile tires than the 4LS, tire sizes are unchanged.
For the LS500, if they can hold the line on ride from the LS460 and improve handling with the use of multi-adaptable suspension thats a win IMHO. If it handles sharper yet rides harder (a comparison is your 4GS vs your 3GS) then I will have an issue. I want the car to ride well before it handles well.
mmarshall, when you say that the 460 is not quite as smooth as the older 430, are you referring to the original 2007 4LS, or are you referring to the major mid-life updated 2012 4.5LS?
Is this deterioration in ride due to the 4.5LS's lower profile tires?
From what I can tell, mostly the wheels and tires. There may be slight differences in the suspension as well. (And I'm refering to the bread-and-butter versions, not the F-Sport, which is obviously more the case). But the LS460, especially in non-F-sport versions, is still quite comfortable.
I applaud everyone for being honest about their opinion on the LS. Good or Bad. The car is still going to be amazing. Yes I agree some German competitors offer a V6. But tell the truth every time you see one don’t you kind shake your head. I think you know what I mean. In a minute Honda will probably offer a turbo v6 in their vehicles. I guess Lexus is trying to tell people it’s about the entire package. I’m sure the car will be as smooth as butter. As far me if I’m going to go big body. It has to be a V8 or above.But hey Lexus may change my mind.
Wonderful, original design ideas. I don't recall ever having seen cut glass used in an automobile before like this. Beautiful and original thinking and design.
03-06-17, 06:06 AM
