rominl

iTrader: (4)

a lot of great points in the last few posts here (in both direction). a lot of food for thoughts

chikoo

History is no indicator of future. That said, my opinion fwiw is that tiers are made up of vehicles that are cross shopped or in some cases a particular brand is the only one making up that tier.

As far as Lexus, MB and BMW are concerned, my experience with people who own them are that they want to look down upon the other. Lexus owners look down upon MB& BMW for history of poor reliability in the last decade and half. MB owners look down upon Lexus as a copy cat trying to beat MB. BMW owners are snobs in that just don't want to look at anything else.
I don't know what it says about me as I happen to own all three brands right now

gyrase321

Some people who can easily afford Tier 1 (defined by some as the German triad of MB, BMW, Audi/Porsche...though I would include Lexus in that category) make a conscious decision to buy Tier 2 vehicles because they prefer understatement over what may be viewed by others as "conspicuous consumption". This behavior is also a form of proactive defense..i.e..to avoid being a target of wealth-seeking opportunists. Or it's just simply living below one's means.

Mr. Burns

Lexus, MB, and BMW are not equal in their prestige and they are not equal within Tier 1, but they are all in Tier 1. Their ranking is like this:

Mercedes
BMW
Lexus

Tier 2 is:
Audi
Cadillac
Infiniti

Tier 3 is:
Acura
Lincoln
Buick

Other lux brands like Jaguar, Volvo etc... are too niche and their volume too small and irrelevant to warrant classification.

The higher up you go in price, the less likely cross shopping between tiers happens. People are more likely to cross shop between tiers at the entry level. But even at the entry level, higher tier brands usually win in volume vs. lower tier brands.

Also people seem to have short memories, Lexus just a few short years ago was on top of the world as far as both volume and prestige was concerned. The LS only lost its #1 best selling flagship sedan title to the S-class in 2011. They've slipped in the face of ageing models and freshly resurgent Germans, but they are positioned to gain much of that back in the coming few years.

I think the new Lexus LX stands to do very well and there isn't even a proper competitor for it from BMW.



It will be a litmus test for sure.

AJT123

I wish I could say otherwise, but I don't think Lexus is tier 1 either, at least not anymore.

The brand was, for sure, IMO, back in the 90s bc everyone was just blown away by them. Everyone wanted a Lexus. I remember when the old LS400 was virtually every other car on the road.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

it means you're schizophrenic.

definitely a north american perspective. europeans would not agree.

chikoo

True. I do feel like that.

Regarding tiers, it is always market based, based upon regional perspectives and old wives tales.

malba2366

Tier 1 would include Porsche, MB, Audi, BMW. Lexus is Tier 2 and is not making moves to move up, the vast majority of their sales (ES, RX, NX) are rehashed Toyota FWD platforms and should not be considered as true luxury vehicles. I would say that in the current state Cadillac is a bit closer to tier 1 than Lexus...and they are moving in the right direction.

chikoo

Another meaningless ideology- FWD not equals to Luxury. What a joke.

malba2366

It's not meaningless ideology...a FR platform with longitudinal engine allows for better handling, and better performance. They will have a better weight distribution which allows for better handling and braking, and they have a smaller turning radius. Ride quality is also inproved due to the better weight distribution.

This is the reason that all proper luxury vehicles (which includes the GS, RC, LS for the fanboys) are this type of layout. The only benefit to going FF is cost savings.

gyrase321

Or you could just be the victim of marketing hype.

gyrase321

This depends on the context of what the car is being used for. In icy roads with poor traction, an FF car may prove to be more luxurious (not to mention life-saving) than an FR car that has slid off to the embankment and killed its passengers. Not all luxury cars are purchased with racing in mind.

Mr. Burns

Lol you clearly don't know what the Tiers mean or are supposed to be.

And FYI ALL of Audi's cars are FWD based, not that that has much weight in the tier system.

jzqj55

At the rate Hyundai is progressing it probably will be the winner in a few years. look at what South Korea has done in electronics. and those who have had to pay for repairs in a Lexus realize the value of Hyundais 100k warranty.

Doesn't sound like anyone on the site has been contacted by Lexus asking how they like their car or what changes they would like to see.
Seems like all of the future plans for the LS are made by product planners who don't and won't own one.
Appears it's only the lexus dealers who contact the customer - to the point of annoyance....

I would also like to see more from the air suspension for example being able to lift the car to a higher level. A huge reason for people buying SUVs is because of the superior visibility from being higher.

At the stage of the game they should be able to offer unnoticeable cylinder deactivation to improve Highway mileage


The new BMW 7 Series design certainly doesn't break any ground
I can see why folks with $ would go for the S 550. I suspect BMW fans are mainly entranced by the grill

rxonmymind

I agree. Ive been saying all along If they want to improve they have to let go of their "we know what's best for you" attitude and allow others to be able to modify & experiment. The mentallity reminds me of the old GM structure of management. Their isolated from the populace and don't hear feed back. Product planners & engineers who all they do is drive around a smooth oval track attempting to nail the sport handling down forget we here in America have some crappy roads and forever making the cars stiffer & stiffer isn't going to win with people. Lexus used to lead and now they just do patches in an attempt to catch up with rivals. "Oh, they've installed this so let do the same"