Vladi

AWD has improved so much that I consider it THE right choice for any premium/luxury sedan. Small sedans could have RWD biased mechanical AWD like Evo X and larger sedans should have neutral hybrid AWD setup like RX.

jzqj55

I think you nailed it with your brand owner mindsets (for many).


Another factor that hurts Benz resale is their inferior factory warranty on used cars. After experiencing the current s550 I checked into it but turned my back when I realize that I would be on the hook for their subpar repair history very soon

Did you ever step on the gas in a front wheel drive car with any power at all?
Especially in slippery conditions? On the point of car stiffness the ideal car has a body stiffness as high as possible and a suspension that is adaptable to being stiff or soft as conditions require.
finally to the dude who said one has to buy a car for every condition luxury suv etc. I believe a lot of smart people out there will pay more for a car that does well in multiple areas.

MR shocks is an example of another technology Lexus has overlooked that is being adopted by more and more world class car makers. State of the art is far beyond having a switch to change from "sport to "comfort.

They had to quit selling them after 2 years because of inadequate demand another example of poor product planning

I see a lot of talk about the glorious LFA it lasted 2 years because of inadequate demand. that would make it a failure. Lexus would have been better off spending the development money on keeping the LS at the top of the luxury car market

chikoo

^ I was offered a price of $7000 for 7yr/100K extended warranty from Costco for my ML350 when I had 30k on it.
MB wouldn't offer me extended wty because previous owner did not service the vehicle with MB.
https://www.costcoauto.com/vpp/

Needless to say I did not buy that wty.

Mr Bond

The main reason for low sales of big petrol engines are not the fuel prices, is has not been this low in decades. Its about the overall advantages many diesel models have. I have testdriven almost every high end BMW and Audi since my friends works there. The performance is good enough, even on a 3 l diesel, you get great torque and good fuel economy at a reasonable price.

But it is important to tell that the traffic situation in EU has changed a lot the last 10 years. The only time you can use the power of a petrol V8 is probably in the middle of the night. Otherwise there are traffic jams all day long. Its not like it was once when you could buy a MB 500 E AMG and run free on the autobahn all day long.

TangoRed

We'll see just how favorable diesel engines are in the future. I think they're going to get largely replaced by hybrid vehicles using petrol engines. France was already announcing it wanted to phase diesels out in 2014. Depending on where you're at in the EU, the taxes alone made it smart to get a diesel.

SW17LS

All this talk about FWD being a better platform for luxury vs RWD is absurd.

There is a reason why EVERY serious luxury vehicle is a RWD or rear biased AWD setup. Its because thats the setup that delivers the best feel, looks, handling, ride, and refinement. Why do you think Audi has a longitudinal engine setup and rear biased Quattro AWD even when their roots are in FWD? If FWD were so superior, why wouldn't Rolls Royces and Bentleys be FWD? FWD is an economy power train, it exists because its inexpensive to design and build.

Traction is a non issue, since basically everyone who makes a midsize or full size luxury car offers RWD AND AWD setups. An AWD Lexus LS for instance will be way better in the snow than a FWD Lexus ES. Trust me...I've had both.

I personally agree that if Lexus really wants to entrench their "tier 1" status, as ridiculous as it is to even worry about such a thing, they need to get away from FWD Toyota derived vehicles.

This isn't true at all. The LFA was never meant to sell over 500 units. It was always supposed to be a niche showcase of what Lexus can achieve, and if you look at the press its gotten it has achieved that. Lexus lost money on every LFA they made, it was never meant to be a volume seller or even a profit center.

UDel

Many people don't consider Lexus Tier 1 or at the same level as BMW and Mercedes including me though that does not mean Lexus is not successful where they are at or offers very competitive and in some cases superior cars to BMW/Mercedes. Over half of Lexus US sales for many years come from 2 fwd Toyota based cars/platforms with Toyota power trains. I have no issue with that but many don't consider that on the same level as the bulk of sales from Mercedes and BMW come from more expensive more specific BMW/Mercedes vehicles aimed more at Tier 1. Also Lexus has never offered a V12's or extremely expensive top end vehicles(aside from the low production short lived LFA) where BMW and Mercedes both offer V12's and have had top end luxury models(8 series, Z8, M1, CL/S class coupe, SLS, SLR, G Wagon, Maybach, etc) for years, the LS while being a very nice car has never been a full on S class competitor, it is a bit below it in many areas plus BMW and Mercedes are very successful globally where Lexus is mainly just very successful in the US over the years.

Other then the actual cars BMW and Mercedes sell more on prestige and brand image and command a premium because of that despite being pretty unreliable and expensive to maintain, Lexus sells more on reliability, durability, lower maintenance, quality, dealership experience at a lower price then BMW/Merc. If you were to take away the perceived reliability/ quality, of Lexus vehicles/brand and put them on the same level as BMW and Mercedes it is likely Lexus sales would be pretty low and brand image would tumble while BMW/Mercedes would still enjoy dominance in just about all segments.

chikoo

What would happen if one were to design a car with the engine in the back, powering the front wheels? - No need to answer this.

UDel

Not all rwd cars are created equally and are good handlers and many fwd based cars are great handlers. Go drive a rwd 80's or 90's Mustang/Camaro, Lincoln Town Car, Chevy Impala/Caprice/Ford Crown Vic/Merc Grand Marquis, etc, they all handle and drive terribly for rwd cars, fwd cars like the Acura Legend or 2nd/3rd/4th gen Acura TL/TL-S, TSX drive and handle much better then those cars and would run circles around them on a track.

In most cases and criteria RWD is the best layout for a luxury sedan or performance car but there are some exceptions over the years, all Audi sedans are fwd based and fwd does offer some packaging advantages, fuel economy, etc.

Back on subject I don't think the future LS will be going fwd.

UDel

There are some rumors Acura may base a sedan off the mid engined NSX platform sort of like the Dualnote concept car.

SW17LS

I'm not sure I see your point.

You can't compare the worst handling RWD cars to the best handling FWD cars and make a claim that the dynamic limitations of FWD vs RWD don't exist because of that comparison.

Compare an Acura TL/TL-S to a comparable BMW 3 Series or 5 Series and see if that comparison still comes out the same way.

The drawbacks are what they are, physics is what it is.

Thats actually not really correct. Its true that Audi sedans are "FWD based" in that they are sold in other markets (and some here) in a FWD configuration. Their configuration though is not FWD as we see it from other carmakers, and when they release a Quattro car (which almost all Audi sedans are in the US) those vehicles are longditudinally laid out (not transversely like other FWD or FWD based AWD vehicles such as the Lexus RX or AWD Acuras) and their Quattro system is rear biased, not front biased like almost all other FWD to AWD vehicles (such as with Acura, Toyota, etc)

So yes, its true that down the chain "all Audis are FWD based", but Audi turns their FWD based cars into basically RWD cars in the upper brackets and in our market? Why? Because thats the layout that gets them the performance they want and its the feel that their customers want.

Dave600hL

A used LFA sells for about $500K here in Japan. About $150K over new car price.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

dave, get one here and ship it back, it's a "bargain" here

Dave600hL

How much do they go for in the States?

blacksc400

iTrader: (4)

There is only one on Ebay for 335k