spwolf

apperantly Lexus copied it for LF-LC :-)


also, diamond stitching is overplayed by now, it is starting to appear in cheapo cars these days.

Mr. Burns

Especially because the Hyundai Genesis coupe is such an original design filled with unique ideas.

/sarcasm.

GS3Tek

iTrader: (8)

What's wrong with you guys?

The LS is missing a spoiler and a shark antenna.

peteharvey

Lexus LS hydrogen fuel cell vehicle HFCV is coming in 2020.
2020 LS's FCV is based on Toyota Mirai's FCV, but the range will be reduced from Mirai's 430 miles [700 km] to only 239 miles [385 km].
The LS FCV's performance will be much greater at around 220 kW [295 BHP] compared to the Mirai's 113 kW [152 BHP].

So far, hydrogen fuel cell engines have modest power outputs, but long range, though both power and range are sure to improve with time.
Perhaps the 2020 5LS FCV's range is dramatically reduced because the LS's platform is not designed for FCV, compared to the Mirai's platform which is "dedicated" to FCV's?
However the forthcoming full size 5LS FCV will be much more comparable to the midsize-plus Tesla Model S EV for price.

http://www.motor1.com/news/59290/lex...l-wheel-drive/
http://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/hi...ns-a-hologram/
http://steeringnews.com/there-will-b...drive-21467-2/
http://www.toyota-autos.com/news/lex...l-wheel-drive/

I still wish Lexus would start developing full size 5LS & midsize 5GS electric vehicle EV to take on the Tesla Model S, as soon as possible.
To be effective and not have reduced range like the forthcoming 5LS HFCV, a hypothetical future LS & GS EV would have to use a dedicated EV platform, and not the conventional internal combustion engine ICE platform.
I wouldn't be surprised if a dedicated platform for an EV is quite similar to a dedicated platform for an HFCV.
In such case, Lexus could develop a single dedicated green platform with the option of both full EV for performance, or hydrogen FCV for mileage range.
.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

Separating this post from the Tesla Model S Refreshed thread to stay more on topic. Also a source informed me the other day that the 5LS is coming later than we thought. These articles seem to support that tidbit.

blacksc400

iTrader: (4)

So 2020 for LS, so 19' release?

spwolf

LS FC is rumored to come in time for Olympic games in Tokyo..

I dont think they know themselves what exact features will it have. It is a long way out and Mirai full production will start in 2018... we will know more by then.

chromedome

Dumb, dumb, dumb. Why can't Toyota use all its hybrid expertise to make a proper EV instead of pointless FCVs that nobody will buy? 200 mile range, not much power compared to a Model S, a huge price tag, hydrogen fuel that's nearly impossible to get - all by 2020!

Lexus will be facing some serious competition once BMW and Porsche come up with their luxury EVs. Let's hope they don't throw away their lead in auto electrification by wasting time on stuff that can't sell.

My0gr81

Toyota will use it's hybrid expertise to further hydrogen fuel cell. They firmly believe that the future will be either ICE/hybrid, HFC or HFC/hybrid. There is no grid capacity in Japan to support full plug in electric and they also firmly believe that everything they do is positioned to benefit their homeland as well as their shareholders.

The market in NA may end up with full plugin electric, HFC or HFC/hybrid eventually, but even here, there are questions about sustaining battery production and charging network for full electric cars. Hydrogen has the advantage that the underground gas thanks or even the big propane tanks can be retrofitted for it.

Vladi

Largest automaker going against fuel infrastructure and industry behind it? It's never going to happen.

We for sure don't know what trend will prevail right now, we know PHEVs are the transition but transition to what: EV or FC. So far I have to say EV but if all big manufacturers join forces and do FC then FC it is.

I still don't see the point of FC as once again just like with the hybrids you carry extra weight in the car. So you need a tank and FC stack to generate electricity to store into batteries and power the motor. The only thing FC has going on is convenience to fuel up but if batteries make a breakthrough and increase in capacity while without increasing too much in weight then FC is done and dead deal.

Claimed range in LS FC is nothing special and it will be even less special in three years.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

You're actually on to something. Cost is obviously a big factor when it comes time to final production, but here are some of the features they are currently considering:

- Communication with All Drivers (Likely only Toyota / Lexus models but maybe universal someday)
- Facial Recognition Identification (Key fob scans your face)
- Remote Parking and Valet
- Driver to Driver Conversation ("Go Ahead" "Thank You")
- Pedestrian Detection Monitoring
- Vehicle Detection Monitoring (Imagine pulling up to a blind intersection quickly with buildings all around and about to floor past a yellow light,. Monitor scans through the building to detect on coming vehicle)
- Temperature & Light Sensitive Roof (panoramic glass that can go from translucent to 'frosted' opaque

peteharvey

EV or hydrogen FCV?
I have no crystal ball either.

EV is a direct application.
HFCV is an indirect application where energy is transitionally stored inside hydrogen and oxygen molecules.
The hydrogen fuel cell stack allows the hydrogen molecules to combine with the oxygen molecules to release energy.
The advantage of this indirect application is that the transitional hydrogen fuel tank is simple and far more energy dense, and far quicker to refill than a battery which has poor energy density, and the battery is recharged by a chemical reaction which is slow compared to mechanical refilling.
The disadvantage is that hydrogen is an extra step, hence a slower process overall.

At the end of the day, EV or HFCV choices will be based on:
1) production and supply of different energy types, eg Japan has a shortage of electricity supply, but a potential abundance in hydrogen supply.
2) the output characteristics of the different drivelines, where the direct acting EV's which can release their stored electrical energy very quickly favor maximum power output, while the indirect acting HFCV's which must undergo a transitional reaction to release electrical stored energy, thus have very modest maximum power output, but potentially have a much longer mileage range.

My0gr81

You realize that with HFC, you don't need batteries, the fuel cell is the battery, and it powers the electric motors. Some of the oil companies have already been on record that they will add Hydrogen refuel capabilities to their retail network as it allows them to maintain their current business model.

On another note, Honda is also big behind HFC with the Clarity, however, they will eventually offer a choice of HFC, EV or ICE/hybrid options to hedge their bets.

chromedome

Oil companies love hydrogen because it lets them stay in business by tweaking the status quo, although the cost to build a hydrogen distribution network would be huge. It's pointless to do on-site electrolysis with renewable power because that electricity could be used for charging batteries directly.

EVs are disruptive because most people can charge at home or at work. You'll never need to visit a gas station again and you'll use outside chargers only on long trips. EVs also promote decentralized power generation with renewables, another disruption to the energy business. I'm betting on EVs as the future with HFCVs relegated to niches like trucking.

Toys4RJill

Yes, but it still costs you money to charge an EV. And as demand for EVs increases, so will the demand and cost for electricity. Once there is a significant infrastructure of hydrogen supply, then hydrogen costs come down.

I can't imagine 500 people going to a shopping mall, or work, or a baseball game and all charging in the parking lot for free.

I like the idea of an EV because I would not have to visit a gas station ever again. But electricity is still expensive. And the Model S is very appealing as its the fastest 4 door sedan every made. No need for a V8 (or V12) when the Tesla S can do it twice as fast