View Poll Results: What should the next LS go after?
Voters: 158. You may not vote on this poll
Next Lexus LS (2018 model)
#496
Lexus Fanatic
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I like the idea of an EV because I would not have to visit a gas station ever again.
Last edited by mmarshall; 04-23-16 at 07:37 AM.
#497
Lexus Fanatic
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That depends on how many perks (if any) the mall-owner or buisness-owner is willing to give to his customers as an incentive for shopping there. ![Wink](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif)
An even better idea, though, IMO, is an Extended-range, Plug-in Hybrid (Chevrolet Volt, Toyota Prius Plug-in, Ford Energi plug-in models, etc...). That way, you have pure-electric range most of the time if you aren't going very far, you use very little if any gasoline (though even with a full-charge on the battery the gas engine has to start and warm up a certain minimal number of times jot keep from deteriorating), and you are guarded against a power failure and not being able to recharge if a storm or something else knocks out the local power-grid.
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An even better idea, though, IMO, is an Extended-range, Plug-in Hybrid (Chevrolet Volt, Toyota Prius Plug-in, Ford Energi plug-in models, etc...). That way, you have pure-electric range most of the time if you aren't going very far, you use very little if any gasoline (though even with a full-charge on the battery the gas engine has to start and warm up a certain minimal number of times jot keep from deteriorating), and you are guarded against a power failure and not being able to recharge if a storm or something else knocks out the local power-grid.
As for the extended plug in. I would argue that you don't even need it to be hybrid. And in a plug-in to your Buick Verano or my Corolla and give it 30 miles per day range. Once it runs out of charge you start using the gas engine. You got the best of both worlds.
The big automakers and the fuel industry WANT to make money. Driving around for free on energy via battery charging, gas, or hydrogen will not be free.
#498
Lexus Champion
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EVs are disruptive because most people can charge at home or at work. You'll never need to visit a gas station again and you'll use outside chargers only on long trips. EVs also promote decentralized power generation with renewables, another disruption to the energy business. I'm betting on EVs as the future with HFCVs relegated to niches like trucking.
(Source: http://www.autoblog.com/2016/04/22/q...ation-mandate/)
Yes, but it still costs you money to charge an EV. And as demand for EVs increases, so will the demand and cost for electricity. Once there is a significant infrastructure of hydrogen supply, then hydrogen costs come down.
I can't imagine 500 people going to a shopping mall, or work, or a baseball game and all charging in the parking lot for free.
I like the idea of an EV because I would not have to visit a gas station ever again. But electricity is still expensive. And the Model S is very appealing as its the fastest 4 door sedan every made. No need for a V8 (or V12) when the Tesla S can do it twice as fast
I can't imagine 500 people going to a shopping mall, or work, or a baseball game and all charging in the parking lot for free.
I like the idea of an EV because I would not have to visit a gas station ever again. But electricity is still expensive. And the Model S is very appealing as its the fastest 4 door sedan every made. No need for a V8 (or V12) when the Tesla S can do it twice as fast
An even better idea, though, IMO, is an Extended-range, Plug-in Hybrid (Chevrolet Volt, Toyota Prius Plug-in, Ford Energi plug-in models, etc...). That way, you have pure-electric range most of the time if you aren't going very far, you use very little if any gasoline (though even with a full-charge on the battery the gas engine has to start and warm up a certain minimal number of times jot keep from deteriorating), and you are guarded against a power failure and not being able to recharge if a storm or something else knocks out the local power-grid.
That being said, I would welcome -- with greater efficiency in battery packaging -- a plug-in hybrid ES (or even the CT).
The advantage of such a system is simplicity (in concept if not execution) and available AWD. But I can see some disadvantages as well. If you merely add a standalone EV drivetrain to a car such as the Toyota Corolla, you have, in effect, two different cars, going from silent, clean running on electricity to running on noisy, dirty internal combustion engine; and you may go from running RWD (on electricity) to FWD (on the ICE), which may be quite a driving dynamics change. By combining the 2 drivetrains into a true hybrid drivetrain, you even out and minimise the dynamic differences, and you make the car more efficient by making some ICE power available to recharge the battery, even while driving the car (which is what all true hybrid cars do these days), rather than wasting that fossil fuel-power.
#499
Lexus Test Driver
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There seems to be a sweet spot for weight, cost and performance for hybrids. There's no point using a heavy and expensive battery unless you go full EV, and there's no point lugging around a complex and heavy ICE drivetrain unless you plan on using it most of the time. Hybrids with sub-2 kWh battery packs and full EVs like the Leaf and Model S fit in that sweet spot, whereas most plugins don't. Plugin SUVs are pointless because the EV range isn't much and ICE-only mileage is dismal.
#500
Pole Position
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EV or hydrogen FCV?
I have no crystal ball either.
EV is a direct application.
HFCV is an indirect application where energy is transitionally stored inside hydrogen and oxygen molecules.
The hydrogen fuel cell stack allows the hydrogen molecules to combine with the oxygen molecules to release energy.
The advantage of this indirect application is that the transitional hydrogen fuel tank is simple and far more energy dense, and far quicker to refill than a battery which has poor energy density, and the battery is recharged by a chemical reaction which is slow compared to mechanical refilling.
The disadvantage is that hydrogen is an extra step, hence a slower process overall.
At the end of the day, EV or HFCV choices will be based on:
1) production and supply of different energy types, eg Japan has a shortage of electricity supply, but a potential abundance in hydrogen supply.
2) the output characteristics of the different drivelines, where the direct acting EV's which can release their stored electrical energy very quickly favor maximum power output, while the indirect acting HFCV's which must undergo a transitional reaction to release electrical stored energy, thus have very modest maximum power output, but potentially have a much longer mileage range.
I have no crystal ball either.
EV is a direct application.
HFCV is an indirect application where energy is transitionally stored inside hydrogen and oxygen molecules.
The hydrogen fuel cell stack allows the hydrogen molecules to combine with the oxygen molecules to release energy.
The advantage of this indirect application is that the transitional hydrogen fuel tank is simple and far more energy dense, and far quicker to refill than a battery which has poor energy density, and the battery is recharged by a chemical reaction which is slow compared to mechanical refilling.
The disadvantage is that hydrogen is an extra step, hence a slower process overall.
At the end of the day, EV or HFCV choices will be based on:
1) production and supply of different energy types, eg Japan has a shortage of electricity supply, but a potential abundance in hydrogen supply.
2) the output characteristics of the different drivelines, where the direct acting EV's which can release their stored electrical energy very quickly favor maximum power output, while the indirect acting HFCV's which must undergo a transitional reaction to release electrical stored energy, thus have very modest maximum power output, but potentially have a much longer mileage range.
I still believe this is the future we should head to. Charging while you are still driving.
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#501
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You probably cannot answer this directly due to NDA concerns, but I only reasonably assume your source was referring to a mistaken belief the car was planned for the 2017 model year.
I have since dumped that assumption for the past 11 months, in following Japanese media sources, Lexus Europe sources (official and personal), and Automotive News. Every other source I have since dismissed, until they corrected their information.
I correctly predicted 5 months early that the 5LS would be shown in concept form at the Tokyo Motor Show. Thus the LF-FC, which many still fail to get the name right or mistakenly assume it does not preview the LS, due to the "FC" suffix.
It stands for "Lexus Future Flagship Car" and "Lexus Future Fuel Cell".
I was right in the end last year, despite so many media sources wrongly claiming otherwise that it was certainly going to be a production LS debut, set for launch this year. All despite the primary fact, that the LC would debut before it, introducing the new modular platform.
It has continously fallen on deaf ears, my very statements that the new model will arrive for the 2018 model year. If your source is claiming it is due by late 2017-early 2018, that is understandable, but nothing new or shocking.
If they are claiming this car is due in late 2018 or 2019, not only is that gobsmackingly inexcusable, is beyond disgraceful and indicative of Toyota foolishly resting on their laurels.
The very product that made Lexus worth a damn for a decade, has been terribly neglected to the point its competitors outshine it in many areas outside of reliability.
Let's not kid ourselves, even if Toyota puts all of their best efforts in the 200B programme, at the end of the day Daimler AG is not standing still and the S-Class can easily one-up them. The next S-Class reaches concept approval within the next 12 months.
In 2016, the 4LS is not where MB was in 1989 with the W126, that affords the car to remain enitrely unchanged for 6-7 years on a 12-13 year old chassis.
#502
Pole Position
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I agree with the post above.
even if Toyota puts up their absolute A game for next LS and its tech features MB is on such a role that it can remedy Toyota's effort real quick. Just like they one upped BMW 7 series with E-class
even if Toyota puts up their absolute A game for next LS and its tech features MB is on such a role that it can remedy Toyota's effort real quick. Just like they one upped BMW 7 series with E-class
#503
Lexus Fanatic
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Lexus could remedy that, they coikd start by offering a V12.
#504
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Mercedes is moving in leaps & bounds with C & E Classes lately, and they have an electric vehicle slated for release in 2018.
Lexus is so slow, with no electric vehicle in sight, and their hydrogen fuel cells may be barking up the wrong tree, because I'm personally more interested in 0-60 in 3.0, than in HFCV's 450 mile (700 km) range.
I might have to switch back to Benz, but their reliability haunts me.
Lexus is so slow, with no electric vehicle in sight, and their hydrogen fuel cells may be barking up the wrong tree, because I'm personally more interested in 0-60 in 3.0, than in HFCV's 450 mile (700 km) range.
I might have to switch back to Benz, but their reliability haunts me.
#505
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As far as MB is concerned, they are only finishing up the facelift, but already have 2.5 years work done with the next S-Class.
I pointed out that fact, as many defenders of these delays are always quick to point out how "it's going to be worth it". With many folks, Lexus just cannot win, especially with outdated power trains and products in some areas.
Until the LC, Lexus was becoming known solely for entry level luxury FWD-based products in the ES and RX, which shared components and common platform with mass market Toyota products.
Basically no halo nor flagship models to boast of, once the LFA went out of production. A car that many people do not even know exists.
One cannot even hope it will be second best, if Audi ends up beating them to market and Infiniti decides to wake up for once. Over engineering a product with no sensible development timetable is not conducive to ROI, a lesson Jaguar also has yet to learn.
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The next S-Class will arrive between mid-2020 and Q1 2021. If the 5LS arrives in late 2018-2019, it will be obliterated shortly after and be used as an excellent study piece by MB engineers (as well BMW) for fine-tuning their redesigns.
#506
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Toyota is replacing 1GZ-FE engine with possibly a 5.0 litre UR V8 variant, upon Century redesign next year. I highly doubt at this point they're investing in 12 cylinders anymore, as by now a V12 LS would have been seriously discussed and not the lame duck flagship LS600hL unchanged since 2007.
I am hoping this LS FCV is not a repeat of that V8 hybrid with "V12 power", which was quickly outgunned by the N74-powered F02 760Li (LSh had same output as E65 760 w/N73 V12).
I am hoping this LS FCV is not a repeat of that V8 hybrid with "V12 power", which was quickly outgunned by the N74-powered F02 760Li (LSh had same output as E65 760 w/N73 V12).
#507
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Mercedes is moving in leaps & bounds with C & E Classes lately, and they have an electric vehicle slated for release in 2018.
Lexus is so slow, with no electric vehicle in sight, and their hydrogen fuel cells may be barking up the wrong tree, because I'm personally more interested in 0-60 in 3.0, than in HFCV's 450 mile (700 km) range.
I might have to switch back to Benz, but their reliability haunts me.
Lexus is so slow, with no electric vehicle in sight, and their hydrogen fuel cells may be barking up the wrong tree, because I'm personally more interested in 0-60 in 3.0, than in HFCV's 450 mile (700 km) range.
I might have to switch back to Benz, but their reliability haunts me.
My real problem with them is that they do not have a range-topping RWD-BASED crossover nor a truly up-to-date flagship saloon. Just reskinned aging products and a yet to come LC, which is still 10-11 months out.
Last edited by Carmaker1; 04-24-16 at 11:48 PM.
#508
Lead Lap
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Just wanted to say I got to see the next LS. The exterior didn't make the same transition as the LC (concept > production) but the interior continues the pace set forth by the LC. No further details.
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Last edited by TangoRed; 05-23-16 at 08:05 AM.
#509
Lexus Test Driver
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What a tease
I hope they keep the coupe silhouette for the exterior because it would make a huge splash in the market. A Lexus that looks like an Aston 4-door would be great.
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I hope they keep the coupe silhouette for the exterior because it would make a huge splash in the market. A Lexus that looks like an Aston 4-door would be great.
#510
Lexus Champion
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Originally Posted by TangoRed
Just wanted to say I got to see the next LS. The exterior didn't make the same transition as the LC (concept > production) but the interior continues the pace set forth by the LC. No further details. ![Smilie](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
![Smilie](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
![Stick Out Tongue](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/tongue.gif)