bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

i don't know why ANY prospective buyer would care at ALL what 'platform' the new LS or ANY vehicle is on. you test drive it, you like it, you find a combo of price/features you can live with and you buy or lease it. 'platform' is also an incredibly vague term too because several models typically share various same aspects for their own 'platforms'.

yeah but apart from that they're doing great.

but i think we can all agree lexus overall is STILL doing great. why? suvs of course. the nx is doing great. the new rx continues the great rx sales. the gx, a car longer in the tooth than a woolly mammoth, is still doing great and making lexus money hand over fist. hell even the ancient lx with the grill bigger the niagara falls is doing great.

SW17LS

The reason for any carmakers success right now is SUVs. Sedans are down across the board.

blacksc400

iTrader: (4)

Yep, even me, a hardcore flagship sedan person, chose a SUV this time around.

RNM GS3

SW17LS

Yeah, a ton of people do. Even I may next time.

You just defined Toyota as a company in general. Nothing has changed.

G Star

iTrader: (2)

Tesla is hitting a wall in China right now (and have been) because the densely populated cities don't have the infrastructure for plug-in power.

peteharvey

I also heard that compared to last year, Tesla sales in Europe year to date has dropped by a whopping 25%; I wonder why?

Vladi

Toyota will get fudged up cause automotive industry is getting into exact same techno advancement bubble of mobile devices seven years ago at rapid pace. Things are chagning really fast and Toyota has no means to catch up anytime soon. And although you can wait and see whats going to happen in economy car market like Camry and Corolla, premium market doesnt have that comfort and thats why Lexus will be the first to suffer the consequences.

To me it seems that Toyota is waiting to see who or what is going to prevail, we are definetely near the cross-roads right now and things will change. But then again Toyota does not look promising at all in new tech like PHEV, their brand new Prius Prime has miserable 25 miles of EV range while outgoing Outlander has 30 for the same price point and its an SUV, next gen coming out within two years will have 70. They are pretty much alone in whole hydrogene thing with small help from Honda and Hyundai. Their conventional hybrid HSD never got into real third gen since back then they promised lithium-ion but stuck with NiMH til today. Hybrid Synergy Drive is already a technology of yesterday.

Sure Toyota can catch up but when you play catch up you cant count on being the sales leader anymore. They were first to get into premium SUV market and til this day they are number one. They were last to enter CUV market and they are selling as much as everyone else even with help of SUV king RX which helps bring people into showrooms. Now compare that to RC which already fell into triple digits sales, they were dead last to get into entry level premium coupe market and contrary to NX case RC didn't have a big brother to carry it. In other words IS needed to be a voluem leader in the market for RC to stand a chance against others.

peteharvey

Yes, I think Lexus needs to move quickly & even leap frog the competition.
Eg, how about a 2.0L V6 Twin Electric Turbo to differentiate Lexus from Toyota; nevermind the slightly higher fuel consumption of the 2.0L V6.
Plus 3.0 V6 & 4.0 V8 Twin Electric Turbos for the forthcoming 5LS?
Hybrids are passe now, so Lexus must quickly move onto big amp-hour lion capacity PHEV plug-in hybrids, and even full blown battery powered electric BEV's on dedicated electric chassis...

G Star

iTrader: (2)

I know there was news about Tesla not doing as expected due to the nearly impossible metropolitan infrastructure but what convinced me was the Tesla exports to China really dried up to next to nothing. I do have my ear at the right places when it comes to this industry so I can speak with a little confidence. Europe I really have no idea whats going on there, maybe the fad trend line lost momentum.

G Star

iTrader: (2)

It appears Lexus has put all their chips against plug-in, they had the chance to the the plug-in leaders in the luxury segment but chose to wait 10 years to get into hydrogen. Worth the gamble? I guess time will tell but damn, a plug-in Lexus in 2010-2012 would've been epic.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

would appreciate phrasing things like that differently going forward. comes off very condescending. thanks.

not true. the v8 gs400 (something wicked this way comes), now a distant memory, was bold, shocking, and awesome when introduced. the original rx, was bold, shocking, unique, and awesome when introduced. the es, for what it always has been, has been unique, incredibly refined, and they've had a bunch of versions of it. heck the nx was a pretty bold move, even though it's not for me. and of course the ls, until this currently generation that's been kept going far too long, has been a benchmark of refinement.

RNM's comment: "Lexus is just slow to respond, they are unwilling to take chances, lately the innovation has been lacking big time." i find true, and it wasn't always true. they have innovated big time in the past (above). one way i'll disagree with it though is that i don't really see lexus as 'responding' to much of anyone - they simply do what they're going to do. they're never going to compete head to head across the whole huge range of models and options that mercedes and bmw has, so anyone expecting that, i believe, i going to be sorely disappointed. but that doesn't mean lexus shouldn't keep innovating. part of the problem is that as the model range does grow, the investment to keep 'all the plates spinning' increases massively. not saying toyota doesn't have the money, but they have obviously chosen to not invest as much as they might have, proceeding at their own pace, methodically, ignoring pretty much any and all criticism. if that ux concept is a general styling direction then i'm gone forever. and the ls renderings i've seen look far too elongated with odd maserati-esque proportions, so hopefully they're all quite wrong.

SW17LS

It's not meant to be condescending at all. Toyota is a company that abhors change. They hate niche product marketing, they like marketing to and appealing to the broadest set of customers possible, which is why they've typically always made such bland universally acceptable cars. That has fundamentally changed, especially at Lexus. The idea that LEXUS would create a car styled so boldly that a large group of people would hate it, and then say "that's okay, if you don't like it buy something else, this is who we are and we know we will loose some customers" is frankly extraordinary when you understand who they are as a company.

I personally think a lot of you overplay how incredible the 2GS was. The idea of putting a V8 in a mid sized luxury sedan was not Lexus' idea. BMW and Mercedes had already done that. So Lexus' had a little more power, they essentially just designed the 2GS to accommodate the V8 engine they already had, and retuned it slightly. How was that groundbreaking?

The ES was not unique. It just had staying power where other competitors didn't.

The original RX was in response to and bore a striking resemblance the Mercedes ML.

Lexus has always been as it's mother Toyota has always been, a slow to adapt company that puts reliability at the forefront.

RNM GS3

If you owned the 2GS back in the day - it was the golden era of Lexus.
They were running on all cylinders so to speak and the sales #s showed it as they were #1 for several years straight.

The 2GS was special because of a lot factors especially the aftermarket support it had. It brought a new demographic to the brand as well.
The car was ahead of its time, design still looks great.
I regret not having the $$$ to get the V8 but the inline 6 was great as well.
0-60 in 5.7 sec in a sedan back in 1997 was incredible.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

to write "if you understood Toyotas corporate culture you would understand" implies you know everything about what the other person understands, and you don't. suggest you stick to stating your opinions and why you think someone else's opinions or alleged facts are right or wrong, but don't claim what someone does or doesn't understand. make it about the subjects, not other posters. if you have any further issue with my comments, please pm me or another moderator.

i believe this to be factually incorrect in many ways. the toyota supra from what 1994 on, was not a bland universally acceptable car. even the celica wasn't. the entire hybrid line-up. the cressida, and on and on... toyota does take many chances. even their mainstream cash cows like camry has changed radically over the years, for better and worse as we all chime in about.

lexus is clearly trying to be bold, with mixed results. much respect to them for trying to lead/innovate with their own vision.

the 2GS was a lot more than that. optitron gauges were unique. the hard drive based nav was miles better than anything else out there. it was definitely smoother and faster than a 5 series or e class. my neighbor had a 540i with the crap cd based nav. the HID headlights i believe were ahead of its competitors. but anyway, that's a long time ago now.

a co-worker got an ES300 when it first came out. we had to go on a business trip and he drove. i was astonished. the bright white illuminated needles on black gauges were unlike anything i'd seen. the smoothness and quiet were unlike anything i'd experienced. the audio was great (certainly given its price point), etc. it was a game changer.

i believe the ml came out a year before the rx so the rx was in development long before the ml was launched. the original ml was a piece of junk made in alabama. the rx was LOVED and RAVED about and sold like crazy. i bought one and loved it. it was unlike anything i'd ever seen or driven. i believe it had the shifter setup in a way that provided some floor space between the front seats. the rear seats reclined. the quality was impeccable. the 220HP V6 at the time was considered very powerful. the exterior look was very unique. it was a game changer.

we can just agree to disagree.