View Poll Results: What should the next LS go after?
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Next Lexus LS (2018 model)
01-09-17, 08:39 AM
#905
Intermediate
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: NJ
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What a stunning interior ! I like this better than the German options.
Not blown away by the exterior. It may look better in person as is the case with most recent lexus products.
The projected 0 to 60 of 4.5 secs is very quick for a TTV6. Basically on par with the TTV8 found in the 7 series and S-class !
Not blown away by the exterior. It may look better in person as is the case with most recent lexus products.
The projected 0 to 60 of 4.5 secs is very quick for a TTV6. Basically on par with the TTV8 found in the 7 series and S-class !
01-09-17, 08:57 AM
#907
Its not about performance. Like Allen said, theres a difference in smoothness and refinement in a V8 that you just don't feel in a turbo 6. I haven't sampled this turbo 6, but if BMW hasn't gotten it yet I doubt they have. In a flagship prestige car there should be a feel of "excess". Lexus knows it too, thats why they lied on the nameplate. Thats why the engine cover says "TWIN TURBO" and not "V6". Current engine cover says "V8".
But people have to understand that the LS is not a niche coupe like the LC. They can take chances with the LC they can't take with the LS. Some of it is a function of physics...people don't like the added bulk outside...well if you want the interior to be wide, spacious and luxurious you can't have the deep scooping you saw on the flanks of the concept. People will put up with a level of reduced space for style in a niche coupe they won't in a flagship luxury sedan.
They took a good many chances. The IP setup is 100% unheard of in a luxury sedan. Dash layout is very unique and a big departure from Lexus' of old. The taillight treatment out of the LC is a new design cue that is polarizing like the spindle.
I actually like it outside more than I thought I would.
But people have to understand that the LS is not a niche coupe like the LC. They can take chances with the LC they can't take with the LS. Some of it is a function of physics...people don't like the added bulk outside...well if you want the interior to be wide, spacious and luxurious you can't have the deep scooping you saw on the flanks of the concept. People will put up with a level of reduced space for style in a niche coupe they won't in a flagship luxury sedan.
They took a good many chances. The IP setup is 100% unheard of in a luxury sedan. Dash layout is very unique and a big departure from Lexus' of old. The taillight treatment out of the LC is a new design cue that is polarizing like the spindle.
I actually like it outside more than I thought I would.
Anyway, the new turbo engines feel much better to me than older V8s. It's not altogether surprising that less powerful engines "feel smoother". Newer forced induction engines also have quite linear HP curves, while torque is generally flat; these are the same characteristics praised by pushrod purists in the Chevy small block, and embraced when they slap a roots-type supercharger on it. More torque is available at lower RPM, which contributes to a "better" driving experience - this is where the daily driver spends most of his time accelerating, between 1,000 - 3,000 RPMs.
Anytime I hear this "shoulda been a V8" mantra I simply shake my head. Objectively, these FI engines are better - they are more efficient at turning chemicals into energy than their predecessors. The only thing that's missing is a characteristic sound, which always seems to be the only thing really missing when V8-lovers are pushed to explain their position. Never mind that this sound is artificially tuned and modified by mechanical piping to create a pleasing note - attempts by engineers to do this with electronics rather than mechanically are seen as "fake", despite that it's the truth for both cases. This is the exact same argument for vinyl vs lossless audio compression. People are nostalgic for the tactile experience of their youth.
01-09-17, 09:19 AM
#909
Lexus Test Driver
Now I'm really curious about the pricing. If this thing is more expensive then the current model, say $80k base with that engine: flop. $90k optioned out just seems overpriced for that engine.
$90k base: super flop.
I would pay that for 471 HP V8, but I wouldn't touch this new one at that price with a ten-foot pole.
Seriously, who else who bought or leased a BRAND NEW LS would consider the new one at $90k? I won't. Would you Steve?
Not sure there are many brand new LS owners out there to begin with. At anything over existing prices and that count will shrink even more.
$90k base: super flop.
I would pay that for 471 HP V8, but I wouldn't touch this new one at that price with a ten-foot pole.
Seriously, who else who bought or leased a BRAND NEW LS would consider the new one at $90k? I won't. Would you Steve?
Not sure there are many brand new LS owners out there to begin with. At anything over existing prices and that count will shrink even more.
01-09-17, 09:20 AM
#910
Pole Position
I find C-Pillar to Trunk transition a lot better than on LF-FC, as a matter of fact its the perfect copy of LF-CC something that never made to RC properly. People have no sense of scale how big this car actually is and with that sharp line at the back of the car pushing the car down it will be a sight you will not miss. Thin grill and hood profile also adds to its appearance and attitude. Just like the previous LS this one will have he same subdued elegance even with predator grill on it.
When I heard 415HP figure few months ago I have to say I wasn't a believer but now it all makes sense, its a 3.5l engine. I don't understand whats the fuss about with V8 and especially TwinTurbo V8 that acts exactly like any turbo engine. There is no clear distinction between the two when they are similarly powered. If Nissan put GT-R powertrain in MB S-Class you would think the base S500 was a V6 instead if you drove each back to back.
And when it comes to new S-Class it's really not all that you see in pictures. Yes, its nice inside but like the previous gen where you got to stare at the center storage compartment whole time in this one you stare at the vents. Also there is that quirky try at elegance with the lighting that comes off very crude. Overall S-Class is still conservative Bauhaus chateau. Like I said it's nice but not that nice as people make it to be.
When I heard 415HP figure few months ago I have to say I wasn't a believer but now it all makes sense, its a 3.5l engine. I don't understand whats the fuss about with V8 and especially TwinTurbo V8 that acts exactly like any turbo engine. There is no clear distinction between the two when they are similarly powered. If Nissan put GT-R powertrain in MB S-Class you would think the base S500 was a V6 instead if you drove each back to back.
And when it comes to new S-Class it's really not all that you see in pictures. Yes, its nice inside but like the previous gen where you got to stare at the center storage compartment whole time in this one you stare at the vents. Also there is that quirky try at elegance with the lighting that comes off very crude. Overall S-Class is still conservative Bauhaus chateau. Like I said it's nice but not that nice as people make it to be.
01-09-17, 09:31 AM
#911
Lead Lap
IMHO: The Maxima is a not a looker when seen in person. I hate making style judgements on a car without seeing it in person - but you are right that on first glance it has that similar look...
01-09-17, 09:41 AM
#913
Lexus Fanatic
The other thing to consider about the lack of a V8 is the business concept of price bracketing. The V8 exists to justify the V6. I think this is one reason why you saw a reduction in sales from the 3GS to the 4GS, the 3GS V8 rarely sold, but when you went to the 4GS with no V8 there wasn't that higher priced option there to justify the GS350, and we did see owners move to BMW and Mercedes (well if I can't get a V8 I may as well get the upgrade brand). Most of those people would have chosen the GS350 anyways had there been a GS460.
Lexus has to understand that a BMW 7 Series or Mercedes S Class are still considered an upgrade from the Lexus LS, they always have been...and from a brand perspective they are also still a half step below.
Price bracketing is why the G90 V8 exists IMHO.
01-09-17, 09:47 AM
#914
Lexus Test Driver
So 3.5 V6 TT = LS500
I guess they are following BMW and MB with the upsize in naming LOL
Problem is you can get several levels of V8s with MB and BMW not to mention TT V12s as well.....
i personally only see the S550 and 750i models of the current cars on the road so 6cyl are not very popular in flagships just look at the flop Caddy CT6 has been.
I guess they are following BMW and MB with the upsize in naming LOL
Problem is you can get several levels of V8s with MB and BMW not to mention TT V12s as well.....
i personally only see the S550 and 750i models of the current cars on the road so 6cyl are not very popular in flagships just look at the flop Caddy CT6 has been.
Last edited by RNM GS3; 01-09-17 at 09:51 AM.
01-09-17, 09:50 AM
#915
Lexus Test Driver
Originally Posted by SW15LS
I would struggle. At $90k there are a lot of other options, if I'm going to have to downgrade to a V6 anyways I would likely consider a 740. The other factor is deals, you can get $10k+ off of a 740 right now, $15k off of an S550. Does the LS come right out of the gate and get discounted that far? or do they hold the line on price and put the value in the MSRP?
The other thing to consider about the lack of a V8 is the business concept of price bracketing. The V8 exists to justify the V6. I think this is one reason why you saw a reduction in sales from the 3GS to the 4GS, the 3GS V8 rarely sold, but when you went to the 4GS with no V8 there wasn't that higher priced option there to justify the GS350, and we did see owners move to BMW and Mercedes (well if I can't get a V8 I may as well get the upgrade brand). Most of those people would have chosen the GS350 anyways had there been a GS460.
Lexus has to understand that a BMW 7 Series or Mercedes S Class are still considered an upgrade from the Lexus LS, they always have been...and from a brand perspective they are also still a half step below.
Price bracketing is why the G90 V8 exists IMHO.
The other thing to consider about the lack of a V8 is the business concept of price bracketing. The V8 exists to justify the V6. I think this is one reason why you saw a reduction in sales from the 3GS to the 4GS, the 3GS V8 rarely sold, but when you went to the 4GS with no V8 there wasn't that higher priced option there to justify the GS350, and we did see owners move to BMW and Mercedes (well if I can't get a V8 I may as well get the upgrade brand). Most of those people would have chosen the GS350 anyways had there been a GS460.
Lexus has to understand that a BMW 7 Series or Mercedes S Class are still considered an upgrade from the Lexus LS, they always have been...and from a brand perspective they are also still a half step below.
Price bracketing is why the G90 V8 exists IMHO.