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Nobody is disputing the performance. What we're concerned about is feel. If I cared more about power than I did refinement I would buy a different car.
Feel? You're going to feel nothing! It's an LS!
Haha while I'm with you guys entirely on mourning the loss of the V8, we have to face the reality that cars need to meet certain efficiency criteria set forth by the government and the competition and downsizing it's how it's being done. Get used to it. More of it will come.
Back to the feel, you guys cry like it's the Corvette that now only comes in V6. It's an LS. You can't feel or hear anything in it. My bet is most people wouldn't know the difference if they weren't told, and even less would care. If this V6 is anything like the 3.5 in the ES, you wouldn't be able to even tell if it's running.
Look, I'm likely in the bigger V8 proponent category. But I can admit it's a nostalgic thing. We don't want to see the LS lose the very engine that was part of the revolution it started when it was introduced.
Things are changing. We have to make painful decisions to move forward. I'm sure when the test drives come in, the mourning will stop. That V6TT will likely have a nice fat torque curve and still be dead smooth. The buyer of this car will not be disappointed other than nostalgic mourning of V8's past.
For the record, I wish it was still NA V8. As a technician, I like my cars simple and hassle-free. Nothing beats a nice simple NA V8 for years of nothing but good times. All these new TT cars on the road are very complicated machines running extreme temps under the hood all day long. I suspect very expensive repairs down the road for these cars as they age compared to the NA versions of the past.
This isn't any worse than the Ford Raptor and how it went from a 6.2L V8 to a 3.5L V6TT. They got it way worse then we did.
Putting out the same (or better) HP/Torque numbers on paper doesn't necessarily mean putting out the same refinement level...which, don't forget, is what many people buy Lexus products for. In general, the more cylinders you have, the smoother and more refined the engine runs.
Not voluntarily. It's being forced upon manufacturers (and the public) by governmental mileage/emission decrees. Of course, there is the possibility that the incoming Trump Administration and Republican Congress might (?) partially roll-back some of those regulations.
Keep politics out of if man damn. Trump will bring back the V8 because of his policies? Seriously come on Mike.
The germans don't have anything to worry about. excluding audi and their bland cars.
That hunchback though. Couldn't they have made it less hunched?
this is the worst angle... making it look like the Infiniti M cockroach design, which killed its sales IMO...
Haha while I'm with you guys entirely on mourning the loss of the V8, we have to face the reality that cars need to meet certain efficiency criteria set forth by the government and the competition and downsizing it's how it's being done.
Things are changing. We have to make painful decisions to move forward.
Get used to it. More of it will come.
I'm not convinced of that. Elections have consequences, and the Obama Administration will be history in just a couple more weeks. Besides, I think that a V6 LS is going to have trouble selling....but we'll see.
But I can admit it's a nostalgic thing. We don't want to see the LS lose the very engine that was part of the revolution it started when it was introduced.
For the record, I wish it was still NA V8. As a technician, I like my cars simple and hassle-free. Nothing beats a nice simple NA V8 for years of nothing but good times. All these new TT cars on the road are very complicated machines running extreme temps under the hood all day long. I suspect very expensive repairs down the road for these cars as they age compared to the NA versions of the past.
Now you're starting to see the picture.
This isn't any worse than the Ford Raptor and how it went from a 6.2L V8 to a 3.5L V6TT. They got it way worse then we did.
People don't buy Raptors to get a smooth engine. They buy a Raptor to be like Mountain Goat.
Haha while I'm with you guys entirely on mourning the loss of the V8, we have to face the reality that cars need to meet certain efficiency criteria set forth by the government and the competition and downsizing it's how it's being done. Get used to it. More of it will come.
Back to the feel, you guys cry like it's the Corvette that now only comes in V6. It's an LS. You can't feel or hear anything in it. My bet is most people wouldn't know the difference if they weren't told, and even less would care. If this V6 is anything like the 3.5 in the ES, you wouldn't be able to even tell if it's running.
Look, I'm likely in the bigger V8 proponent category. But I can admit it's a nostalgic thing. We don't want to see the LS lose the very engine that was part of the revolution it started when it was introduced.
Things are changing. We have to make painful decisions to move forward. I'm sure when the test drives come in, the mourning will stop. That V6TT will likely have a nice fat torque curve and still be dead smooth. The buyer of this car will not be disappointed other than nostalgic mourning of V8's past.
This isn't any worse than the Ford Raptor and how it went from a 6.2L V8 to a 3.5L V6TT. They got it way worse then we did.
I would've vastly preferred a V8 TT but I agree- I seriously doubt anyone's going to notice. It sucks there's no V8 option available from the start purely from a perception perspective though.
I'm not convinced of that. Elections have consequences, and the Obama Administration will be history in just a couple more weeks. Besides, I think that a V6 LS is going to have trouble selling....but we'll see.
Let's not forget Lexus is a global company though. I'm sure this V6 TT is going to have a lot of relevance across the Toyota-Lexus global lineup in the future. Developing/updating a V8 that will be able to hit future economy/emissions targets that would be used solely for the LS was probably cost prohibitive.
The germans don't have anything to worry about. excluding audi and their bland cars.
That hunchback though. Couldn't they have made it less hunched?
this is the worst angle... making it look like the Infiniti M cockroach design, which killed its sales IMO...
This I have to agree with. This car has way too many Infiniti-ish lines on it and frankly... Infiniti easily has one of the most polarizing design languages on the road today. I personally find them quite ugly and they need to tighen up all those bloated lines and shapes. It's a shame this design is reminiscent of what Infiniti is currently doing. =/
The tail lights with that drop angle on the sides instantly reminds you of Maxima and that's not helping the cause here at all. The bulging hood-to-fender line is VERY Infiniti. I wish that line was straight and not curved.
Otherwise I love it. Still need to see in person to pass final judgement.
I would've vastly preferred a V8 TT but I agree- I seriously doubt anyone's going to notice. It sucks there's no V8 option available from the start purely from a perception perspective though.
Those who don't have a feel for things mechanical, or much experience behind the wheel, may not notice as much as car enthusiasts like us, or those who often drive and review different vehicles.
Can't wait to see the LS in Obsidian and Smokey Granite Mica. While I love Atomic Silver, it doesn't do it justice on these pics. Need to see in person.
Another thing that's a bit disconcerting is long-term reliability of this engine. To push out that much HP from that displacement means the PSI must be extraordinarily high.
What long-term impacts would that have versus the tried and true NA engines. A V8 turbo would be even better and potentially not have to operate under such strenuous conditions due to be able to output more HP at lower boosts.
You think these engines can go 200k miles with ease operating at 14-16 PSI (just a guess) versus a NA engine or even a V8 turbo @ 8 or lower PSI?
This engine has to work hard. A V8 wouldn't. Expensive problems long-term and frankly if it weren't for reliability, Lexus would have a much more difficult time.
And how how would you feel if the exact same engine was in the Supra or GS down the line? Say you early adapt in 2017. Then in 2019 they introduce the GS with the same engine for $40k less. How would you feel assuming the $90k vs $50-60k base price differences?
Another thing that's a bit disconcerting is long-term reliability of this engine. To push out that much HP from that displacement means the PSI must be extraordinarily high.
What long-term impacts would that have versus the tried and true NA engines. A V8 turbo would be even better and potentially not have to operate under such strenuous conditions due to be able to output more HP at lower boosts.
You think these engines can go 200k miles with ease operating at 14-16 PSI (just a guess) versus a NA engine or even a V8 turbo @ 8 or lower PSI?
This engine has to work hard. A V8 wouldn't. Expensive problems long-term and frankly if it weren't for reliability, Lexus would have a much more difficult time.
I'm extraordinarily not worried. We've come a long way from a technology perspective an Lexus knows reliability is their calling card.
However. It is a fact of life that turbo engines create a lot of heat and are very hard on the engine oil. Extending your oil change interval on a NA V8 is no biggie. Making that a habit on a TT engine is way more of a problem. Modern engines are very dependent on good oil change practices due to heavy dependency on oil actuated variable valvetrains and the like.
Adding a pair of oil whipping, scorching turbines and things get worse much quicker. While this doesn't affect most buyers of these cars, it surely affects me, the guy that buys your $60k car for $15k a decade and a half later. Even the owner that carries the car several years out of warrany will get the sticker shock of his life when we has to replace a pair of turbos at the dealer.
"But my old LS went 20 years without any serious repairs!"
Lexus is good at making a reliable car but they can't defy the laws of physics. These cars will inherently be less reliable than history has shown.
The worry of actual engine damage like rings, compression loss and long block type worries, I'd say are not of concern. I'd be way more concerned with the turbos themselves, oil coking, VVT actuators, sludge and just plain heat just cooking all the plastic under the hood.
Another thing that's a bit disconcerting is long-term reliability of this engine. To push out that much HP from that displacement means the PSI must be extraordinarily high.
What long-term impacts would that have versus the tried and true NA engines. A V8 turbo would be even better and potentially not have to operate under such strenuous conditions due to be able to output more HP at lower boosts.
You think these engines can go 200k miles with ease operating at 14-16 PSI (just a guess) versus a NA engine or even a V8 turbo @ 8 or lower PSI?
This engine has to work hard. A V8 wouldn't. Expensive problems long-term and frankly if it weren't for reliability, Lexus would have a much more difficult time.
And how how would you feel if the exact same engine was in the Supra or GS down the line? Say you early adapt in 2017. Then in 2019 they introduce the GS with the same engine for $40k less. How would you feel assuming the $90k vs $50-60k base price differences?
I would be pissed.
If there's one thing you probably never need to worry about in a Lexus, it's the powertrain reliability. Lexus released the 2GR-FSE with 306 HP well in advance of all competitors, and it took German rivals half a decade to catch up with their NA V6. Lexus has delayed the release of a turbo V6 for a while, and now that they've done so, it again leap frogs everything available from Europe. The 2GR never had any issues, and this new engine, given Lexus' track record, almost certainly will not either. Meanwhile, those N63 V8s in BMWs (that I suppose don't have to work hard???) have been known to self-detonate...
Also, the GS with this engine will likely cost $70k or more (65k at a minimum), just based upon pegging it 10k under the GS-F as any reasonable marketing department should do.
Another thing that's a bit disconcerting is long-term reliability of this engine. To push out that much HP from that displacement means the PSI must be extraordinarily high.
What long-term impacts would that have versus the tried and true NA engines. A V8 turbo would be even better and potentially not have to operate under such strenuous conditions due to be able to output more HP at lower boosts.
You think these engines can go 200k miles with ease operating at 14-16 PSI (just a guess) versus a NA engine or even a V8 turbo @ 8 or lower PSI?
This engine has to work hard. A V8 wouldn't. Expensive problems long-term and frankly if it weren't for reliability, Lexus would have a much more difficult time.
And how how would you feel if the exact same engine was in the Supra or GS down the line? Say you early adapt in 2017. Then in 2019 they introduce the GS with the same engine for $40k less. How would you feel assuming the $90k vs $50-60k base price differences?
I would be pissed.
What do you consider extraordinarily high PSI to make 416 HP? Keep in mind that it will come from factory built for stock boost whatever that PSI is.
Yeah I'm not worried about reliability. One of the reasons it took them so long to roll out this FI V6 is because they wanted to make sure they had the reliability down.
01-09-17 | 11:59 AM
