View Poll Results: What should the next LS go after?
Voters: 158. You may not vote on this poll
Next Lexus LS (2018 model)
01-09-17, 01:11 PM
#961
Lexus Champion
Originally Posted by plex
What do you consider extraordinarily high PSI to make 416 HP? Keep in mind that it will come from factory built for stock boost whatever that PSI is.
01-09-17, 01:15 PM
#963
Pole Position
Roughing a quick guess, a 3.5 liter engine making 416hp psi is likely boosting around 10psi. That's not a whole lot. Of course, it may be more or less depending on what compression ratio they chose to run but it's in that area. Nothing too crazy.
Toyota wouldn't make a car running anything too high.
Your bigger concern over boost pressure is turbo size. They will likely be small to keep the response fast (IE, big torque before 2k rpm) which means red hot glowing turbos all day. Large, lazy turbos work cool and easy and only boost when it's time to go. These little ones are constantly screaming even at mild throttle.
That's how you get that "big V8 feel" with a smaller displacement engine.
Toyota wouldn't make a car running anything too high.
Your bigger concern over boost pressure is turbo size. They will likely be small to keep the response fast (IE, big torque before 2k rpm) which means red hot glowing turbos all day. Large, lazy turbos work cool and easy and only boost when it's time to go. These little ones are constantly screaming even at mild throttle.
That's how you get that "big V8 feel" with a smaller displacement engine.
01-09-17, 01:16 PM
#964
As Tango said, Toyota knows what they are doing.
However. It is a fact of life that turbo engines create a lot of heat and are very hard on the engine oil. Extending your oil change interval on a NA V8 is no biggie. Making that a habit on a TT engine is way more of a problem. Modern engines are very dependent on good oil change practices due to heavy dependency on oil actuated variable valvetrains and the like.
Adding a pair of oil whipping, scorching turbines and things get worse much quicker. While this doesn't affect most buyers of these cars, it surely affects me, the guy that buys your $60k car for $15k a decade and a half later. Even the owner that carries the car several years out of warrany will get the sticker shock of his life when we has to replace a pair of turbos at the dealer.
"But my old LS went 20 years without any serious repairs!"
Lexus is good at making a reliable car but they can't defy the laws of physics. These cars will inherently be less reliable than history has shown.
The worry of actual engine damage like rings, compression loss and long block type worries, I'd say are not of concern. I'd be way more concerned with the turbos themselves, oil coking, VVT actuators, sludge and just plain heat just cooking all the plastic under the hood.
However. It is a fact of life that turbo engines create a lot of heat and are very hard on the engine oil. Extending your oil change interval on a NA V8 is no biggie. Making that a habit on a TT engine is way more of a problem. Modern engines are very dependent on good oil change practices due to heavy dependency on oil actuated variable valvetrains and the like.
Adding a pair of oil whipping, scorching turbines and things get worse much quicker. While this doesn't affect most buyers of these cars, it surely affects me, the guy that buys your $60k car for $15k a decade and a half later. Even the owner that carries the car several years out of warrany will get the sticker shock of his life when we has to replace a pair of turbos at the dealer.
"But my old LS went 20 years without any serious repairs!"
Lexus is good at making a reliable car but they can't defy the laws of physics. These cars will inherently be less reliable than history has shown.
The worry of actual engine damage like rings, compression loss and long block type worries, I'd say are not of concern. I'd be way more concerned with the turbos themselves, oil coking, VVT actuators, sludge and just plain heat just cooking all the plastic under the hood.
01-09-17, 01:17 PM
#965
Lexus Fanatic
I'd argue that how long an engine lasts beyond it's expected service life has no bearing on it's expected reliability to a new-car buyer (empirically, we see this in the buyer of a 7-series or S-class). Sure, if you're buying a 15 year old car, it matters to you. I'd also argue that Lexus shouldn't care about the 15 year old user-car buyer, because there is literally zero monetary value in making sure a car lasts that long. In fact, it's negative value, due to how much it costs to engineer and build parts that last that long.
01-09-17, 01:19 PM
#966
Yea, sure, for the first 10 years of the car's life. Does the reliability of a 2002 IS300 define what a "Lexus" is, today? This isn't the original LS trying to make a shot across the bow of the Germans.
edit: This also isn't even the flagship for Lexus anymore. That's now the LC.
edit: This also isn't even the flagship for Lexus anymore. That's now the LC.
01-09-17, 01:23 PM
#967
Roughing a quick guess, a 3.5 liter engine making 416hp psi is likely boosting around 10psi. That's not a whole lot. Of course, it may be more or less depending on what compression ratio they chose to run but it's in that area. Nothing too crazy.
Toyota wouldn't make a car running anything too high.
Your bigger concern over boost pressure is turbo size. They will likely be small to keep the response fast (IE, big torque before 2k rpm) which means red hot glowing turbos all day. Large, lazy turbos work cool and easy and only boost when it's time to go. These little ones are constantly screaming even at mild throttle.
That's how you get that "big V8 feel" with a smaller displacement engine.
Toyota wouldn't make a car running anything too high.
Your bigger concern over boost pressure is turbo size. They will likely be small to keep the response fast (IE, big torque before 2k rpm) which means red hot glowing turbos all day. Large, lazy turbos work cool and easy and only boost when it's time to go. These little ones are constantly screaming even at mild throttle.
That's how you get that "big V8 feel" with a smaller displacement engine.
I know exactly what you mean 10 psi is nothing really. Putting together my Supra now my plan is 30psi minimum when I'm on E85, anyway I get why some people are mad that the V8 wouldn't be available for now maybe it will be in LC-F who knows. But Toyota took it's time with this one it's funny seeing some responses about reliability. No need to doubt or put down TT V6's look at what Nissan did with the R35. They even brought out a 3.0 TT V6 for the infiniti line in Q50 etc...Factory boost on the 2jzgte Supras was around 12 psi. I know one guy that has been pushing 20psi on pump gas to this day he's had the car at least 15 years and no issues. I still tease him about going single but point is Toyota took their time then and I'm confident in their product yet again.
01-09-17, 01:28 PM
#968
Pole Position
I'd argue that how long an engine lasts beyond it's expected service life has no bearing on it's expected reliability to a new-car buyer (empirically, we see this in the buyer of a 7-series or S-class). Sure, if you're buying a 15 year old car, it matters to you. I'd also argue that Lexus shouldn't care about the 15 year old user-car buyer, because there is literally zero monetary value in making sure a car lasts that long. In fact, it's negative value, due to how much it costs to engineer and build parts that last that long.
Of course they don't care about me buying old cars. The point was that *I* do, and in the future, it won't be as easy as it is now.
And I think there is monetary value their older cars on the road. Parts and Service is very lucrative, and it shows the public how well the cars are built when they see all the 20-year old Toyotas still putting about. They will stick with the brand and buy another when the time comes.
01-09-17, 01:29 PM
#969
Lexus Fanatic
if you start having issues with reliability on older cars, it will diminish buyers' perception of a new Lexus yes. The whole idea is that you can buy it and drive it for 10+ years and have it be reliable. Thats part of Lexus "lore"
01-09-17, 01:32 PM
#970
Lexus Test Driver
Besides lack of V8, have you seen the NEW Camry - not only does it have a spindle grille but tailights design is identical to the LS.
Not sure any one wants to drop 100k and be confused with driving Camry.
Not sure any one wants to drop 100k and be confused with driving Camry.
01-09-17, 01:34 PM
#971
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by RNM GS3
Besides lack of V8, have you seen the NEW Camry - not only does it have a spindle grille but tailights design is identical to the LS.
Not sure any one wants to drop 100k and be confused with driving Camry.
Not sure any one wants to drop 100k and be confused with driving Camry.
01-09-17, 01:36 PM
#973
Pole Position
Jose we've both played the boost game for a long time your Wald SC was one of my inspirations when I was in the SC game
I know exactly what you mean 10 psi is nothing really. Putting together my Supra now my plan is 30psi minimum when I'm on E85, anyway I get why some people are mad that the V8 wouldn't be available for now maybe it will be in LC-F who knows. But Toyota took it's time with this one it's funny seeing some responses about reliability. No need to doubt or put down TT V6's look at what Nissan did with the R35. They even brought out a 3.0 TT V6 for the infiniti line in Q50 etc...Factory boost on the 2jzgte Supras was around 12 psi. I know one guy that has been pushing 20psi on pump gas to this day he's had the car at least 15 years and no issues. I still tease him about going single but point is Toyota took their time then and I'm confident in their product yet again.
I know exactly what you mean 10 psi is nothing really. Putting together my Supra now my plan is 30psi minimum when I'm on E85, anyway I get why some people are mad that the V8 wouldn't be available for now maybe it will be in LC-F who knows. But Toyota took it's time with this one it's funny seeing some responses about reliability. No need to doubt or put down TT V6's look at what Nissan did with the R35. They even brought out a 3.0 TT V6 for the infiniti line in Q50 etc...Factory boost on the 2jzgte Supras was around 12 psi. I know one guy that has been pushing 20psi on pump gas to this day he's had the car at least 15 years and no issues. I still tease him about going single but point is Toyota took their time then and I'm confident in their product yet again.
While yes, turbo cars can of course be reliable, you're comparing an enthusiast owned car to potentially a soccer mom IS200t that might change her oil 5k miles late for 6 years... Would you buy that car? This is the scenario I worry about. Wouldn't it be way easier to buy an IS350 knowing it's a much simpler car mechanically?
The point is yea it's likely good provided strict practices were followed, but the NA version will ALWAYS be more reliable. It's just a matter of hey, if you don't have any turbos, you never gotta change em!
It's not a huge deal, but the margin for error closes dramatically as the years pile on. As opposed to before, you wouldn't even blink at an LS with 180k on it. A TT one with 90k? Yikes... Show me pristine service records!
01-09-17, 01:38 PM
#974
Lexus Test Driver
Most people dont know a difference that LS is RWD.
The fact that your new flagship shares any styling cues with the Camry should not happen period.
Especially bec people still stereotype Lexus as a fancy Toyota.
The fact that your new flagship shares any styling cues with the Camry should not happen period.
Especially bec people still stereotype Lexus as a fancy Toyota.
01-09-17, 01:39 PM
#975
Lexus Fanatic
But it has always shared styling cues with the Camry, thats not anything new. It hasn't held them back before.