spwolf

how is VW going to get RWD models?

They need to be doing what they have been, just better... special models for American markets, just better models.

mmarshall

Hyundai already IS upmarket....and Kia is joining them.

I'm with spwolf on this one. RWD is not necessarily a magic-wand solution to marketing problems. In fact, a lot of buyers simply don't want it.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

If history tells us anything though, if you want to gain a foothold, showing value is among the easiest ways to get consumers to your stores. The Japanese did it, Koreans are doing it. Look at Lexus now. While it still offers value, the line is becoming thin. Lexus is trying to shed that association and elevate it's image. Lexus is a serious player now. Like it or not the Chinese cars are coming, and you can bet no one will buy a Geely unless it's the cheapest new car on market. Even Hyundai has elevated itself. Look at the move to drop the 2.0T in the Genesis Coupe, leaving only the V6 and speculation that the next gen will be grander. When the space is empty there is always someone ready to take up the spot

The first point is the most important. The other two, RWD is more a 'status' thing and consumers don't really care. It's more important on acutal luxury offerings. And the Amarok would be DOA. The only small pickup to really gain a foothold is the Tacoma. It's hard to crack the truck market with these competitive domestics.

mmarshall

Hoovey, with all due respect, we've been hearing that same line (not necessarily from you, but from others) about the "imminent" arrival of Chinese designed/built cars here in the American market for the last ten years. (same for the new Acura NSX) and we're still waiting for both. Several different rumors of entrepeneurs contracting with Chery and other Chinese for a piece of the American market just haven't worked out. There are several possible reasons for this (and we don't have a true crystal ball as to why). My own personal opinion, however, is that the Chinese are dragging their feet and just don't want to build their products to American crash/safety/emission standards. If they did, their prices would go up, and they would lose some of their potential cost-advantages.


What IS a status thing, today, among luxury cars, is not RWD so much as AWD. AWD is becoming a necessity, either as standard equipment or as an option, which is any more and more luxury/uparket cars are offering it now. In the Cadillac and Lincoln line-ups, for example, ALL of their sedans have it as an option.

And the domestic pickups are only getting better. Drive a new (Dodge) Ram, for example, and you will be utterly amazed at the road manners.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

I didn't say 'imminent' nor give a timeline, just that they will come to our shores eventually as an inevitablility. In one way or another, new Volvo's may or maynot have some Chinese influence in future products. Some very plausable points in the latter part of your statement. I'm sure every variable listed or not plays a role.

To some extent I agree. Well basically anything but FWD. Sure there are more FWD offerings from Luxury makes (more than ever now) but they aren't pitted as luxury cars as much as 'hey come buy our car it has a luxury badge' instead. That said even Jaguar is spending loads of $$$ for their new AWD system getting it to co-exist with the SC V6. They'll plan a system for the V8 eventually.

Even Dodge and Ford dropped the Dakota and Ranger respectively, but in part that their half tons can best even smaller trucks like the Frontier, Tacoma, defunct Ridgeline. Yes some new trucks have good road manners now. The GM of my store recently got a Ram 2500 Cummins Dually and it's loaded to the gills with 'Luxury' tech once thought to be reserved only for luxury badges.

spwolf

Well, Volvo IS Chinese now ;-).

As to actually Chinese brands being in the US, that wont be so soon considering that they sell "poorly" in China. They are certainly getting better though, but their prices are also growing. There is no magic way for them to offer same car for much lower cost.

It annoys me when people start thinking car industry is the same as cell phone industry and/or TV industry... it isnt and it wont ever be. Cars are not commodities.

For instance, we have Quoros - which is half Chinese (Cherry) and half Israeli company, with cars designed and engineered in Europe and produced in China.

Their first product - Quoros 3 started selling in Slovakia this year... it is decent enough car but at the same time - price starts at €16k, which is about the same price of VW Jetta in Slovakia. They are not competing at price levels at all - instead they want to offer competitive vehicle.

I remember reading some interview with head of Toyota in Europe, and he said that cost of labor is small part of car production costs - only 8%.

wasjr

"Management and staff at VW have had cozy ties for quite a few years. That may be coming to an end now. In difficult times, one will find out how resilient those ties are," said Stefan Bratzel, head of the Center of Automotive Management think-tank near Cologne."

Maybe this will get VW management to rethink being so welcoming to the UAW in Chattanooga.

mmarshall

The reason for that seems obvious....robots and automation doing much of the actual assembly work now. Instead of a big workforce with workers getting $30-40 an hour, you now have a much smaller force, and with wages probably half of that, even in American plants. Sure, it's cheaper and more efficient for the company from a labor-cost point of view, but unemployed workers can't buy cars....and companies have to sell cars.

J.P.

Do robots run and build themselves? It takes setup techs, project managers, electricians, controls engineers, maintenance people plus onsite support....

It’s not a net loss game, from those tiered companies supplying all the components from hoses to metal to the semiconductors and those that embed the code both presetup to post. Plus all the in-jobs created for RD etc……..

ABB alone employees like 150,000 people alone

Controls Engineer $70-120k
Embedded Programmer $80-150k
Project Manager $100-150k
Floor \ PM maintenance $40-90k
Robotics Engineer $60-120k

Tons of jobs have been created while others were lost. Sadly we don't want to learn math and do the hard stuff anymore, it is easier to run off to school and get a communications degree so many will be left behind.

mmarshall

Of course it does. I never said any different. But, once those machines are set up and running, they usually don't need much attention until it is time for yearly retooling....and many cars don't get significant or extensive redesigns for several years or more.