Fit and Finish Issues... Really?
#76
Lexus Fanatic
In styling, sure. But when it comes to quality, material quality, etc etc I don't see how you can say that. I had an LS430...and while the interior of the 13-14 LS is not a "downgrade" as I feel the interiors of the ES, RX, IS, GX, are...its not an "upgrade" either. Its simply "as good". I love the LS460, and likely will get one in 1.3 years when my lease is up, but it is what it is.
Look at the new S Class vs any other S Class. Look at the new XJ vs any other XJ, look at the new 7 vs any other 7. The material quality, build, differentiations in available interesting trim, quality leathers, etc is superior. The LS offers what it offered in 2001 inside...two leather options, three wood options, an optional alcantara headliner. Exactly the same.
The S Class by comparison has 4 leather options, 4 or 5 wood options, a ton of exotic color choices and combinations. basic quality materials and the options for even higher quality.
Its not just the current S either, look at the outgoing S vs the previous S. Same thing. Evolving, improving. More options, more choices, more quality. Not the same or less. Its not 1999 anymore when you could put a wood/leather wheel in a car, have nice padded plastics and nice leather and its instantly luxurious.
Look at the new S Class vs any other S Class. Look at the new XJ vs any other XJ, look at the new 7 vs any other 7. The material quality, build, differentiations in available interesting trim, quality leathers, etc is superior. The LS offers what it offered in 2001 inside...two leather options, three wood options, an optional alcantara headliner. Exactly the same.
The S Class by comparison has 4 leather options, 4 or 5 wood options, a ton of exotic color choices and combinations. basic quality materials and the options for even higher quality.
Its not just the current S either, look at the outgoing S vs the previous S. Same thing. Evolving, improving. More options, more choices, more quality. Not the same or less. Its not 1999 anymore when you could put a wood/leather wheel in a car, have nice padded plastics and nice leather and its instantly luxurious.
The Ls430 is outstanding, but like I said in other threads the LS460 for 13-14 is a Lexus masterpiece.
#77
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I'd agree with you but than we'd both be wrong? Is your opinion based on pictures and commentary on this forum or have you actually sat in both played around with the gadgets ?
#78
Lexus Fanatic
Right, have you even driven an LS460 or an LS430? Sitting in it for 5 minutes at the dealer or car show is not what I'm talking about.
First let me say that there is no other car I would rather drive than a 2014 Lexus LS460. Just to put that out there. But, I'm also an objective person when it comes to these things. From what you would see in a picture, sure the 13-14 LS has an interior that is easily better than any other Lexus LS interior ever.
BUT...when you sit in the car and compare that car to say an LS430 or an older LS460...theres nothing objective that makes it better. It looks better, it looks more contemporary...but its not better built, its not more solid, the materials aren't better...they're not worse...they're just the same. Thats my point, it needs to be clearly better built and higher quality than the outgoing model.
When you start compiling a list of the LS' interior benefits over other Lexus models...you also start to note discrepancies. For instance...The GS has more adjustable seats, you cannot get the level of adjustments you have on a GS Luxury model on an LS at any price. They don't offer it. The LS has no option for a passenger adjustable length seat...the GS has driver and passenger. You can't get a panoramic sunroof like you can on an ES. The semi aniline leather in the GS luxury feels better than the base seats in the LS. That leather should be standard in the LS, and even better leather should be available in the LS at additional cost. The LS has shimamoku wood...great...so do other Lexus models. We need more options, LS specific options...but in the least someone like me coming from a loaded GS should not have to sacrifice features and content when buying an LS.
One thing other manufacturers have learned and Lexus has not learned is that one true luxury is always choice. The ability to have the car the way you want it. They shoe-horn you into these model and color specific combinations and thats contrary to what the luxury buyer wants. Don't want metal trim on the F Sport? Wood should be available. Woods should be pair-able with colors based on the buyers taste. There should be higher end leather options...not the leather thats available on the GS and even the lowly ES! There should be things that ONLY come on the LS...instead there is literally nothing on the LS you can't get on another Lexus model...
My friend who just got the X5, she ordered it from the factory. She got to choose the wood trim type, color, finish, 4 or 5 options for leather, several different seat and stitching configurations, myriads of options for exterior trim and wheels. THATS luxury. Lexus won't let us do any of that. Want grey leather? Its got to be this wood. Want ML audio? Comes in this package. Want better leather? Gotta have this $12,000 package. Want to order? We don't want you to do that. Buy it off the lot. BMW didn't even blink an eye at her desire to order.
First let me say that there is no other car I would rather drive than a 2014 Lexus LS460. Just to put that out there. But, I'm also an objective person when it comes to these things. From what you would see in a picture, sure the 13-14 LS has an interior that is easily better than any other Lexus LS interior ever.
BUT...when you sit in the car and compare that car to say an LS430 or an older LS460...theres nothing objective that makes it better. It looks better, it looks more contemporary...but its not better built, its not more solid, the materials aren't better...they're not worse...they're just the same. Thats my point, it needs to be clearly better built and higher quality than the outgoing model.
When you start compiling a list of the LS' interior benefits over other Lexus models...you also start to note discrepancies. For instance...The GS has more adjustable seats, you cannot get the level of adjustments you have on a GS Luxury model on an LS at any price. They don't offer it. The LS has no option for a passenger adjustable length seat...the GS has driver and passenger. You can't get a panoramic sunroof like you can on an ES. The semi aniline leather in the GS luxury feels better than the base seats in the LS. That leather should be standard in the LS, and even better leather should be available in the LS at additional cost. The LS has shimamoku wood...great...so do other Lexus models. We need more options, LS specific options...but in the least someone like me coming from a loaded GS should not have to sacrifice features and content when buying an LS.
One thing other manufacturers have learned and Lexus has not learned is that one true luxury is always choice. The ability to have the car the way you want it. They shoe-horn you into these model and color specific combinations and thats contrary to what the luxury buyer wants. Don't want metal trim on the F Sport? Wood should be available. Woods should be pair-able with colors based on the buyers taste. There should be higher end leather options...not the leather thats available on the GS and even the lowly ES! There should be things that ONLY come on the LS...instead there is literally nothing on the LS you can't get on another Lexus model...
My friend who just got the X5, she ordered it from the factory. She got to choose the wood trim type, color, finish, 4 or 5 options for leather, several different seat and stitching configurations, myriads of options for exterior trim and wheels. THATS luxury. Lexus won't let us do any of that. Want grey leather? Its got to be this wood. Want ML audio? Comes in this package. Want better leather? Gotta have this $12,000 package. Want to order? We don't want you to do that. Buy it off the lot. BMW didn't even blink an eye at her desire to order.
Last edited by SW17LS; 07-30-14 at 11:35 AM.
#79
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
I really like the Jeep GC. We recently had one as a rental, ... What I could not get past was the behavior of the new 8 speed transmission. As we'd slow down to a stop, it would exhibit this horrible "clunk" and jolt. Did it every time, even my wife was asking "what was that?".
glad you like your RX though! it's a fine suv/cuv. the thing i like about it is it feels light and airy and is very comfortable.
#80
Lexus Fanatic
Yes...I posted that for two reasons. One, an earlier poster (might have been you?) was talking about the 2011 JGC he had owned. Two, IMO, the 2011 interior was richer-looking (particularly in two-tone) than the new 2014....but that, of course, is subjective, and just a personal opinion.
#81
Lexus Fanatic
And, as I have replied to several other posters, You'll get no arguments from me on how nice the new JGC is to drive. It is, IMO, one of the iconic symbols of the new Fiat-owned Chrysler.
#82
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by ClassicSC3
It's all about money now. Be careful out there guys. Don't be susceptible and be on constant check. I know we all want absolute luxury but hardtimes dictate vigilance as well.
There are more consumers with money out there than ever.
#83
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
about LS460 - i really like the '13 refresh interior, but the remote touch and infotainment system are a let down. they're clunky and the graphics look old. it should be better. and switching to a trackpad won't be enough.
but the LS is a WONDERFUL and EFFORTLESS car to DRIVE in PEACE with no drama or stress. an S class is too, but for $10-20K more typically.
but the LS is a WONDERFUL and EFFORTLESS car to DRIVE in PEACE with no drama or stress. an S class is too, but for $10-20K more typically.
#84
Lexus Fanatic
Right, have you even driven an LS460 or an LS430? Sitting in it for 5 minutes at the dealer or car show is not what I'm talking about.
First let me say that there is no other car I would rather drive than a 2014 Lexus LS460. Just to put that out there. But, I'm also an objective person when it comes to these things. From what you would see in a picture, sure the 13-14 LS has an interior that is easily better than any other Lexus LS interior ever.
First let me say that there is no other car I would rather drive than a 2014 Lexus LS460. Just to put that out there. But, I'm also an objective person when it comes to these things. From what you would see in a picture, sure the 13-14 LS has an interior that is easily better than any other Lexus LS interior ever.
I won't directly comment on the latest 2014 LS interior, though, because I haven't sat inside it or reviewed it....except for a very brief moment at the D.C. auto show, where it was very crowded.
#85
Lexus Champion
There was an article a while back, perhaps on Car and Driver, where they were discussing the LS and they said something to the effect that while it is not a sporty car, it is a car that everyone should have the opportunity to drive just once, as it really is something to experience.
#86
Lexus Fanatic
The infotainment is an area Lexus really needs to address, and coming from owning a long line of one Lexus after the other I really didn't realize how far behind they were, but compared to the Jeep, and compared to the new BMWs I've been in lately...Lexus' infotainment is REALLY behind...
#87
Lexus Fanatic
That's why I said it was objective. I happen to like the 2011 interior. You and I are both quite objective (see my previous post above)
#88
Lexus Fanatic
and you are totally correct that the plushest-looking interiors, (which can dazzle you on the surface), can sometimes be nothing but plated/coated thin plastic underneath. There are a number of vehicles that do this,
...
I won't directly comment on the latest 2014 LS interior, though, because I haven't sat inside it or reviewed it....except for a very brief moment at the D.C. auto show, where it was very crowded.
...
I won't directly comment on the latest 2014 LS interior, though, because I haven't sat inside it or reviewed it....except for a very brief moment at the D.C. auto show, where it was very crowded.
That's why I said it was objective. I happen to like the 2011 interior. You and I are both quite objective (see my previous post above)
#89
Lexus Champion
The infotainment is an area Lexus really needs to address, and coming from owning a long line of one Lexus after the other I really didn't realize how far behind they were, but compared to the Jeep, and compared to the new BMWs I've been in lately...Lexus' infotainment is REALLY behind...
#90
Lexus Fanatic
There was an article a while back, perhaps on Car and Driver, where they were discussing the LS and they said something to the effect that while it is not a sporty car, it is a car that everyone should have the opportunity to drive just once, as it really is something to experience.