GM To Idle ATS & CTS Plant For 3 Weeks; CTS Has 215 Day Supply
#17
Lexus Fanatic
Generally Buicks are just tarted up reworked Chevy's. Althougj nicer than a Chevy and the they have better warranties, the chassis dynamics/interiors are nowhere Lexus, Audi or MB products.
The Verano is a retooled Cruze
The Enclave is a Chevy SUV
Encore is a Chevy CUV
Lacrosse is an Impala ???
I believe Buick did use the Caddy Northstar with the Lucerne at one point in time, the Northstar was a great engine when produced, very smooth and quiet although unreliable and expensive to fix.
The Verano is a retooled Cruze
The Enclave is a Chevy SUV
Encore is a Chevy CUV
Lacrosse is an Impala ???
I believe Buick did use the Caddy Northstar with the Lucerne at one point in time, the Northstar was a great engine when produced, very smooth and quiet although unreliable and expensive to fix.
#18
Lexus Fanatic
I think price is a lot of the issue here. Like I said when I first looked at the CTS, I liked a lot of things about it, but optioned up like my $60k GS it was $70k. If i were going to spend $70k for a luxury car in this size class there is no question what I would buy...a well optioned 535i. No question. Its also a VERY competitve segment, maybe the most competitive in the industry. Every model is excellent. Building a car that is great in a lot of ways, but also has a class leading price wasn't smart.
With discounts the CTS can be had $10k under list...but thats still a lot and you can't market that.
Too bad.
With discounts the CTS can be had $10k under list...but thats still a lot and you can't market that.
Too bad.
#19
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
I agree. I also can't decide which segment is most competitive..honestly the compact car and midsize-family sedan segment is pretty intense as well. And they don't have fat profit margins to contend with...they depend on volume.
#20
-0----0-
iTrader: (4)
I think price is a lot of the issue here. Like I said when I first looked at the CTS, I liked a lot of things about it, but optioned up like my $60k GS it was $70k. If i were going to spend $70k for a luxury car in this size class there is no question what I would buy...a well optioned 535i. No question. Its also a VERY competitve segment, maybe the most competitive in the industry. Every model is excellent. Building a car that is great in a lot of ways, but also has a class leading price wasn't smart.
With discounts the CTS can be had $10k under list...but thats still a lot and you can't market that.
Too bad.
With discounts the CTS can be had $10k under list...but thats still a lot and you can't market that.
Too bad.
#21
Lexus Champion
#22
Lexus Champion
As for looks, beauty is in the eye of the beholder--I love the looks of the ATS, so long as it is Performance or Premium with LED DRLs.
Keep waiting for the Buick version--there won't be one. But--you could get a Regal with essentially the same 2.0T engine. But the TrueCar discounts on a Regal GS are way lower than the ATS--the prices aren't that far off if you are going for a higher end ATS.
#24
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by LexsCTJill
The Verano is a retooled Cruze
Originally Posted by autoblog
Those of you who still think of the Buick Verano as some sort of callously badge-engineered, gussied up version of the Chevrolet Cruze ("Why would anyone spend that much money on Buick's Cruze?" you may have been heard to mutter) have got the wrong idea.
Originally Posted by LexsCTJill
I believe Buick did use the Caddy Northstar with the Lucerne at one point in time, the Northstar was a great engine when produced, very smooth and quiet although unreliable and expensive to fix.
Last edited by mmarshall; 08-09-14 at 07:38 PM.
#25
Lexus Fanatic
Test-drive one, and you'll find out why. IMO, the much less expensive Chevy Impala, done on the same platform, trumps it in several areas.
#26
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by tex2670
Keep waiting for the Buick version--there won't be one.
But--you could get a Regal with essentially the same 2.0T engine.
#27
Lexus Test Driver
3 Reasons the new Cadillacs are not selling:
1. Both exterior and interior styling is not for everyone.
2. Interior tech and functionality is lacking big time.
3. Pricing is CRAZY......Cadillac is not at the point where it can ask for same price as MB, BMW, and Audi or even Lexus. They overpriced themselves before establishing a customer base that buys the brand.
Just because they had some success with the CTS for 1 or 2 generations doesn't mean the Brand is back, not sure what their executives were thinking.
1. Both exterior and interior styling is not for everyone.
2. Interior tech and functionality is lacking big time.
3. Pricing is CRAZY......Cadillac is not at the point where it can ask for same price as MB, BMW, and Audi or even Lexus. They overpriced themselves before establishing a customer base that buys the brand.
Just because they had some success with the CTS for 1 or 2 generations doesn't mean the Brand is back, not sure what their executives were thinking.
#28
Lexus Fanatic
3 Reasons the new Cadillacs are not selling:
1. Both exterior and interior styling is not for everyone.
2. Interior tech and functionality is lacking big time.
3. Pricing is CRAZY......Cadillac is not at the point where it can ask for same price as MB, BMW, and Audi or even Lexus. They overpriced themselves before establishing a customer base that buys the brand.
Just because they had some success with the CTS for 1 or 2 generations doesn't mean the Brand is back, not sure what their executives were thinking.:
1. Both exterior and interior styling is not for everyone.
2. Interior tech and functionality is lacking big time.
3. Pricing is CRAZY......Cadillac is not at the point where it can ask for same price as MB, BMW, and Audi or even Lexus. They overpriced themselves before establishing a customer base that buys the brand.
Just because they had some success with the CTS for 1 or 2 generations doesn't mean the Brand is back, not sure what their executives were thinking.:
Cadillac, a couple of years ago (like Lincoln and its Town Car), took a huge gamble by dropping the very popular DTS, which had become an American institution with older folks. Neither the Town Car or DTS were replaced with what I'd call proper flagships. That gamble, as I predicted, didn't work at all for Lincoln (which, if the new MKC doesn't succeed, will be on the edge of oblivion), and has only partially worked for Cadillac.
#29
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (3)
I agree with what everyone else has said so far... sad because these are great cars, but they are also too expensive.
Looking at base prices...
A6 2.0T FWD is $44k
CTS 2.0T is $46k
GS 350 is $48k
CTS 3.6 is $55k
A6 3.0T is $56k
Cadillac is still fighting for Mercedes' and BMW's scraps in this segment, just like Lexus and Audi. Problem for Caddy is that Audi and Lexus are more prestigious and have been playing in this segment for a lot longer and are generally more desirable. You can get a loaded GS 350 for the price of a base CTS 3.6 (not counting incentives). Caddy needed to be more conservative with pricing... 2.0T should have been around $44k, 3.6 should start around $48k and V Sport should start around $55k. CTS is still a new product and we are a year away from new E Class and refreshed A6 and GS, which will have the volume GS 200t model.
Not a good outlook for Caddy.
Looking at base prices...
A6 2.0T FWD is $44k
CTS 2.0T is $46k
GS 350 is $48k
CTS 3.6 is $55k
A6 3.0T is $56k
Cadillac is still fighting for Mercedes' and BMW's scraps in this segment, just like Lexus and Audi. Problem for Caddy is that Audi and Lexus are more prestigious and have been playing in this segment for a lot longer and are generally more desirable. You can get a loaded GS 350 for the price of a base CTS 3.6 (not counting incentives). Caddy needed to be more conservative with pricing... 2.0T should have been around $44k, 3.6 should start around $48k and V Sport should start around $55k. CTS is still a new product and we are a year away from new E Class and refreshed A6 and GS, which will have the volume GS 200t model.
Not a good outlook for Caddy.
#30
The ATS will be challenged by the 2.0t Lexus in the IS. Even if these two were the same price, I'd much rather have a modern Lexus/Toyota power train than a GM parts bin combo. The prospect of the Lexus having better dependability and less depreciation matters too. I would consider an ATS, but it would need to be about $10k cheaper than the Lexus.