Scion could be repositioned below Lexus as a Premium brand
12-06-14 | 04:25 PM
#16
Brands don't come from no where. They are the result of something tangible or emotional. Scion is nothing of both. Toyota is a powerful brand, so they would have no problem creating new brands backed up by Toyota brand (i.e. Lexus). But then the product has to follow. For example, if Toyota builds a presidential car under another new brand, in some years this brand could be on Maybach/Bentley/Rolls Royce level. Same goes for a Ferrari/Lamborghini rival brand. The problem is not Scion, but the strategic product segmentation. While all Toyota brands should be independent, they should still have a strategic positioning within the whole group (i.e. Daihatsu - low cost, Toyota - mainstream, Lexus - premium). This is important not to create any overlapping or dilution. However the whole branding strategy has to be revised in order to gain sustainable competitive advantage that will hurt most mainstream brands but also premium brands, where customer turnover will increase due to lack of differentiation. Premium brands are losing their position: that is fact. Lexus is protected from that due to their low sales and small portfolio. They have to take advantage from that situation. With regards to Scion, at the moment it has no positioning nor name, so it cannot be successful.
Low sales? Stateside or Worldwide? Lexus blows Audi away in the States and is very competitive against BMW and Benz month in and month out
12-06-14 | 04:35 PM
#17
Toyota, of course, once produced engines for Lotus. The Elise that I reviewed some years ago had a Toyota 1.8L VTEC four..the same engine, I think, used in the last Celica GT and Matrix XRS.
One (possible) reason why Toyota didn't buy Proton is that, even as huge as the company is, they were somewhat short of cash after the large fines that the American government socked them with after the runaway-acceleration and throttle/floor-mat issues.
One (possible) reason why Toyota didn't buy Proton is that, even as huge as the company is, they were somewhat short of cash after the large fines that the American government socked them with after the runaway-acceleration and throttle/floor-mat issues.
12-06-14 | 04:55 PM
#18
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 91,624
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From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
Agree with the first. Seen the 2017 Fusion interior yet? Mainstream makes are making a strong case for nice cars which is honestly blurring the lines between mainstream/upscale/premium and luxury. Pressure is on luxury makes especially when most of the same tech can be had for a lower price on fully optioned mainstream badges vs more basic luxury makes.
12-06-14 | 05:00 PM
#19
"Luxury" automakers also need to realize (and this is turning a lot of people off) that a true luxury car is not necessarily something with a Boeing 777-level of computerization and video-screen complexity. Many people want (and are most happy with) simple round ***** and push-switches.
Luxury to me is not just about adding tech and feature content. It's about refinement, experience, detail. Soft close doors, acoustic tuning, laser engraved 'Lexus' on some screws etc..
12-06-14 | 05:15 PM
#20
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,081
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From: NM
Ford learned that the hard way with the first gen MyTouch. They since re-added some buttons on some models. Lexus does it well in the sense that 95% of redundant functions can be done via a physical button or via the Touchscreen/RT/RTI Luxury to me is not just about adding tech and feature content. It's about refinement, experience, detail. Soft close doors, acoustic tuning, laser engraved 'Lexus' on some screws etc..
Luxury to me is not just about adding tech and feature content. It's about refinement, experience, detail. Soft close doors, acoustic tuning, laser engraved 'Lexus' on some screws etc..
12-06-14 | 07:19 PM
#21
Example of blurred line vehicles would be Avalon vs. ES350, Top of the line Impala vs. CTS, Volks CC vs. A4.
12-06-14 | 08:39 PM
#22
Lexus Champion
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,010
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From: CA
Worst idea ever! Between the Avalon and the ES, the Prius and the CT, the Highlander and the RX, the Prado/4Runner and the GX, and the Land Cruiser and the LX, there's hardly any room between Toyota and Lexus for another brand as it is. Toyota and Lexus don't need another brand just like Ford and Lincoln did not need a Mercury. Just let Scion die already. Don't try to save face by repositioning it into something it clearly is not and ruining both Toyota and Lexus brands in the process.
12-06-14 | 09:03 PM
#23
Driver
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 157
Likes: 5
From: BC
I agree. Scion really ought to be merged back with Toyota, which is definitely missing the portfolio of cars that Scion has in its profile (small, sporty vehicles). The FR-S and the TC would fit nicely as Toyotas and sell just as well, if not better since it is backed by a very reliable and trustworthy name.
12-07-14 | 02:22 AM
#25
Worst idea ever! Between the Avalon and the ES, the Prius and the CT, the Highlander and the RX, the Prado/4Runner and the GX, and the Land Cruiser and the LX, there's hardly any room between Toyota and Lexus for another brand as it is. Toyota and Lexus don't need another brand just like Ford and Lincoln did not need a Mercury. Just let Scion die already. Don't try to save face by repositioning it into something it clearly is not and ruining both Toyota and Lexus brands in the process.
12-07-14 | 01:07 PM
#27
12-07-14 | 03:27 PM
#28
Pole Position
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From: Prague
World-wide. The is a lack of high-powered luxury cars for Russia, Asia and Middle East. But in Europe Lexus just can't get that successful, at least in the perception of European customers. Taking into account Lexus has no diesel and rather well powered cars, if 4 cylinder hybrid, or at least 6 cylinders, they are doing rather well. More than that a very large quantity of German premium cars are fleet sales. It is hard to get a weighted comparison.
12-07-14 | 07:22 PM
#29
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 91,624
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From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
When one looks at the Scion brand, though, its uniqueness goes beyond just small vehicles. The company is still the only one still selling in the American market with a customer-friendly, no-haggle sales policy that greatly simplifies the deal-making. Saturn, of course, which had a similar policy, is gone, and it was briefly tried at Oldsmobile back in the late 1990s/early 2000s before that division folded. So, Scion, as I see it, still has a selling point, though some dealerships from other brand are also getting on board with Internet-discount ho-haggle prices too. That (likely) accounts for Scion's popularity with older customers who want the reliability of an inexpensive, Toyota-designed vehicle without the high-stress bargaining atmosphere often found at Toyota dealerships....not necessarily the age-group that the division originally intended.
12-08-14 | 05:25 AM
#30
Pole Position
Joined: Jan 2006
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From: UK
With Toyota going more upmarket and Lexus coming more downmarket I can't see any gap to position Scion between them. The premium and budget brands are the ones being successful as people either aspire to them or look for a set of cheap wheels. The mainstream brands, stuck in the middle, are being squeezed as they see their market share eaten from both ends.