2016 Cadillac CT6 (Page 4)
#136
Lexus Fanatic
BTW, the Lincoln reps said the Continental would start in the same general range as the CT6 (about $53,500, if my memory is correct)...but said that the pricing wasn't finalized yet.
Last edited by mmarshall; 01-27-16 at 05:15 PM.
#137
Lexus Fanatic
Topping out in the $60s nowadays isn't that big a deal, but the 90s?!? Cadillac is way overreaching here, the core of the vehicle and then interior doesn't support that. They can sell that car all day long for $70k
#138
Lexus Fanatic
Remember when I reviewed the new MDX a few months ago (it was a top-level version with almost every available option) that listed for 60K? A number of responses from CL just went on and on about that 60K price, even though I pointed out numerous times that base FWD versions started in the low 40s. In fact, Lincoln had a nice MDX at the show yesterday for 53K....you might have seen it.
I'd say a lot of XLS owners might be tempted to trade, except that, at least from what I've seen, not that many XTS models were sold in the first place.
Cadillac is way overreaching here, the core of the vehicle and then interior doesn't support that. They can sell that car all day long for $70k
#139
Lexus Fanatic
Remember when I reviewed the new MDX a few months ago (it was a top-level version with almost every available option) that listed for 60K? A number of responses from CL just went on and on about that 60K price, even though I pointed out numerous times that base FWD versions started in the low 40s. In fact, Lincoln had a nice MDX at the show yesterday for 53K....you might have seen it.
I don't have an issue with them being $60k because $60k isn't what it used to be, its just that vehicle doesn't have an interior commensurate for a $60k price tag. Inside it feels like a $45,000 car.
Cadillac makes a nice enough interior to sell a car for $60k.
I
'd say a lot of XLS owners might be tempted to trade, except that, at least from what I've seen, not that many XTS models were sold in the first place.
If Cadillac is smart they will offer no fleet discounts for the CT6.
#140
Lexus Fanatic
#141
Lexus Fanatic
No. I meant the MKX.......Lincoln's mid-sized car-based SUV. There was a nice one at the show for 53K, and the one I reviewed a few months ago that listed for 60K drew a lot of howls here at the price. (too many howls, IMO...I thought some posters over-reacted, considering that that was the extreme limit, and that most of them would sell for substantially below that). I did not actually review a less-expensive one because it was brand-new and none were then available.
True.....but IMO most of the latest ones I've seen from Lincoln (obviously haven't had a chance to sit in the Continental yet) are adequate competition for not only Caddy but some other brands in tis class.
Among the production interiors I saw yesterday (though not up close) the Cadillac had a lot more wood inside. Some people just don't like wood-trim (I generally tend to like it, myself, especially if it has a nice matte/natural-looking finish). Those who don't like wood, of course, don't like the CT6's interior and prefer the Continental's, though the actual production Continental interior has somewhat more wood than the over-chromed, garish interior on the Concept, which looked like something Detroit would have produced in the late 1950s.
Cadillac makes a nice enough interior to sell a car for $60K
Among the production interiors I saw yesterday (though not up close) the Cadillac had a lot more wood inside. Some people just don't like wood-trim (I generally tend to like it, myself, especially if it has a nice matte/natural-looking finish). Those who don't like wood, of course, don't like the CT6's interior and prefer the Continental's, though the actual production Continental interior has somewhat more wood than the over-chromed, garish interior on the Concept, which looked like something Detroit would have produced in the late 1950s.
Last edited by mmarshall; 01-27-16 at 06:31 PM.
#142
Lexus Fanatic
I meant to say MKX not MKS. What's happening to us here? Lol.
I have to disagree about Lincoln interiors. I sat in all of them at the car show yesterday and couldn't believe how cheap they were. Flimsy feeling switchgear, flimsy doors and such, questionable materials. Even the black label editions, completely unimpressive IMHO and not competition for anything from Cadillac or any other legitimate luxury marque. Acura, perhaps.
I have to disagree about Lincoln interiors. I sat in all of them at the car show yesterday and couldn't believe how cheap they were. Flimsy feeling switchgear, flimsy doors and such, questionable materials. Even the black label editions, completely unimpressive IMHO and not competition for anything from Cadillac or any other legitimate luxury marque. Acura, perhaps.
#143
Lexus Fanatic
Relax. We all make typos. We would not be human if we didn't.
I don't totally disagree with you......you do have some points. I agree some of the hardware could be improved...especially those El Cheapo flat-black plastic steering-column paddles for the transmission, which are straight out of the Ford parts-bin. The doors could shut with a little more solidness (I noted that in both my MKC and MKX reviews). But, overall, given today's Lincoln interiors from those of just a few years ago......I sure know which ones I'd rather have.
I have to disagree about Lincoln interiors. I sat in all of them at the car show yesterday and couldn't believe how cheap they were. Flimsy feeling switchgear, flimsy doors and such, questionable materials. Even the black label editions, completely unimpressive IMHO and not competition for anything from Cadillac or any other legitimate luxury marque. Acura, perhaps.
Last edited by mmarshall; 01-27-16 at 06:45 PM.
#144
Lexus Fanatic
They're better, but they need to be to the level of the cars they're trying to compete with...
#145
It's common for the human mind to automatically associate and classify objects to make better sense of it. However instead of calling it an S-class competitor simply because of it's size stop and think of what it actually is in the best way possible:
The CT6:
1. Priced at the top of the Midsize class ($55k base vs say $50k for the current 528i.) People keep complaining about price of the top spec CT6 platinum priced around $90k when you can spec a 535i to over $86k...yes 535i not 550i.
2. Lighter than every single midsize vehicle in the class(minus Cadillac's own CTS)
Acura RLX FWD: 3969 lbs
Audi A6 2.0T FWD: 3803 lbs
BMW 528i RWD: 3814 lbs
Cadillac CT6: 3657 lbs
Cadillac CTS: 3646 lbs
Genesis G80: 4138 lbs
Jaguar XF 3.0: 3770 lbs
Lexus GS200t: 3805 lbs
MB E350 RWD: 4001 lbs
Volvo S90 T5 FWD: 4012 lbs
3. Offers the dynamics of a sporty midsize with the solidity of a fullsize bank vault
4. Offers the interior space of a fullsize not to mention the presence
5. Offers an interior that's far beyond the midsize competition, so far in fact that it people are actually confusing this car of competing directly with the S-class even though it begins at nearly half the price and maxes out before you even step foot to the S-classes BASE price.
6. Isn't even Cadillac's flagship. Read all about it. Cadillac's future flagship will be larger than the CT6 as well a the S/7/A8/XJ/LS
This is the CT6. So big and good that people associate it with the best Cadillac can do. At this point all you can do is ask what do people expect.
Last edited by Lexuslvr91; 01-27-16 at 07:40 PM.
#146
But why? The ATS and CTS are currently at the level of the intended competition and look at them. This is Cadillac's first vehicle that isn't trying to follow the competition but rather create its own class and do what Cadillac can do best.
#147
Lexus Fanatic
Have you seen the car in person? I couldn't sit in it but from what I saw in person and what I've seen in pictures I wouldn't consider the interior better than anything in the mid sized class, especially the new E.
I suppose we will see if it sells.
I suppose we will see if it sells.
#148
The $92K model does have a crap load of features
Not saying I like the look (front lights are terrible) or believe in the product but the overall set of features is interesting
Not saying I like the look (front lights are terrible) or believe in the product but the overall set of features is interesting
#149
Lexus Fanatic
Probably every upscale or flagship sedan in that price range today has a boatload of features. They have to justify that price somehow. That was one of the ways (among several) that VW, several years ago, justified a 90K price for their W12 Phaeton sedan...yet it still didn't catch on in the U.S., notwithstanding the fact that you couldn't get a V12/W12-cylinder vehicle anywhere else for the same price.
#150
The ATS and CTS didn't flop because they're bad cars, it's mostly that their brand and imagery can't support being priced directly in line with the European and Asian competitors. People could have seen positive reviews, but then once they saw the sticker prices, they would rather get a BMW, Mercedes, Audi, etc for an equivalent price.
The ATS and CTS are still dynamically very well balanced and engineered vehicles, which is why journalists rave about them. The buying public however, won't even consider giving the Cadillacs a test drive when the same sticker price gets them a fully contemporary luxury image vehicle in the other brands. And then even with the extremely heavy discounting, it doesn't matter, as people have already written them off due to the initial pricing seen on the Build Your Own sites.
That said, I agree that the CT6 won't be a game changer for the brand. It just creates more confusion in the Cadillac showroom. They've got 3 semi-full size sedans that all have weird overlaps in pricing and content. CTS/XTS/CT6.
The prior generation CTS did well because it was nearly a 5 series size for just over or matching 3 series pricing. This generation CTS tried to move size and price directly in line with the 5 series, and hasn't done well. This CT6 again goes to somewhat of a tweener position. Nearly 7 series size, for pricing closer to a 5 series. Not sure if there is a huge niche for this type of tweener product. But everyone is trying to find slivers where they can kind of stand out. Nissan is trying this with the Titan XD, etc.
The ATS and CTS are still dynamically very well balanced and engineered vehicles, which is why journalists rave about them. The buying public however, won't even consider giving the Cadillacs a test drive when the same sticker price gets them a fully contemporary luxury image vehicle in the other brands. And then even with the extremely heavy discounting, it doesn't matter, as people have already written them off due to the initial pricing seen on the Build Your Own sites.
That said, I agree that the CT6 won't be a game changer for the brand. It just creates more confusion in the Cadillac showroom. They've got 3 semi-full size sedans that all have weird overlaps in pricing and content. CTS/XTS/CT6.
The prior generation CTS did well because it was nearly a 5 series size for just over or matching 3 series pricing. This generation CTS tried to move size and price directly in line with the 5 series, and hasn't done well. This CT6 again goes to somewhat of a tweener position. Nearly 7 series size, for pricing closer to a 5 series. Not sure if there is a huge niche for this type of tweener product. But everyone is trying to find slivers where they can kind of stand out. Nissan is trying this with the Titan XD, etc.