Car and Driver Compares the Kia K900 to the LS460L
02-16-15, 02:47 PM
#76
I suspect this is generally the case--at least with the LS. I think these upscale Korean sedans are generally compared with something in a class lower. I think people who are looking at an Avalon or an ES may decide to go with a Genesis and get more features and luxury for not all that much more. I'm not sure who's buying the Equus or the K900 though--people fed up with Caddy and Lincoln, maybe?
if we look at Toyota/Lexus and KIA/Hyundai + industry sales in past 10 years, it is easy to conclude that Koreans are not taking Toyota sales... but Ford, GM and FIAT/PSA sales.
old myth of korean manufacturer competing vs japanese manufacturer just because they are both asian has been dispelled in past years.
it does not really matter what you or me or someone else thinks about it, it can be proven statistically if we look at sales and profits.
02-16-15, 03:57 PM
#77
Lexus Fanatic
You lost me here. On a pure car type, I think the Sequoia matches up with a Tahoe. But other than as to off-road capability, how does a Land Cruiser match up to a Range Rover? Range Rover's peer should be the GX470--both are lux brands.
I also don't see the Corvette having the same prestige as a Porsche, and certainly not a Ferrari. Capability--yes vs. the Porsche; maybe vs a Ferrari, depending on the model. But prestige--not a chance, certainly not as compared to a Ferrari. It's actually the same concept as the K900--a Corvette on the showroom floor next to a Spark cannot have the same prestige as those other brands.
I also don't see the Corvette having the same prestige as a Porsche, and certainly not a Ferrari. Capability--yes vs. the Porsche; maybe vs a Ferrari, depending on the model. But prestige--not a chance, certainly not as compared to a Ferrari. It's actually the same concept as the K900--a Corvette on the showroom floor next to a Spark cannot have the same prestige as those other brands.
In America, there are not many V8 SUVs that start at $80,000 MSRP, the Land Cruiser is one of them, Range Rover starts at just $3k more. The Caddy Escalade is around $72k.
Around the world some LC diesel models can fetch $115k US.
The low sales numbers, smaller than American size, feature plus interior does make the LC a very prestigious vehicle.
You are right, I was wrong about the Corvette Ferarri comparo.
02-16-15, 08:33 PM
#78
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by tex2670
I'm not sure who's buying the Equus or the K900 though--people fed up with Caddy and Lincoln, maybe?
From my own point of view, the K900 also a noticeably better flagship than the Cadillac XTS, which, though plush and attractive inside, is clearly lacking in the ride-comfort and refinement department.
02-16-15, 11:05 PM
#79
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
lots of amusing comments here. 
let's just suppose that's all true.
the es350 is a quiet smooth front wheel drive that isn't really very luxurious. yes the avalon is less luxurious still.
the es350 is driven around here by a lot of realtors who want to drive a 'nice' car but not a mercedes or clients will think they make too much money.
ok, so you think a land cruiser (a toyota) should be compared to a range rover. i personally think that's absurd even if the land cruiser is very capable off road. the lx570 is obviously more luxurious and is a better comparison.
aaaand now you've left the reservation. 
it may compare on paper, but for exactly the same reasons you don't want to compare other vehicles to lexus because of branding/positioning/reputation, comparing a corvette to a porsche or ferrari is absurd.
no idea how it can be easy to conclude that. if you're doing so because toyota sales went up, well so did ford, gm, and most everyone. without some deep and serious market research there's no way of knowing at whose expense the hyundai/kia sales came from.
the world is a big place and it depends. land cruisers do very well in many places like the middle east, but range rover does very well i europe (not surprisingly).
back to the thread point - obviously the k900 does not occupy the mindspace or reputation in the u.s. market that the lexus ls460 does, just as the lexus ls460 does not occupy the mindspace or reputation in the u.s. of the s-class.
Let's look at the ES for a second, there are a lot of folks who think the Buick Lacrosse is in the same league as the ES. Its simply not true. The Lexus name alone is far more prestigious than a Buick that does not qualify as a luxury brand. An Avalon on the other hand could and should be compared to the Lacrosse. Both on brand and individual model name.
the es350 is driven around here by a lot of realtors who want to drive a 'nice' car but not a mercedes or clients will think they make too much money.
I often see folks comparing the Toyota Land Cruiser to a Chevy Tahoe, its unbelievable that someome would do this. The Land Cruiser compared with a Land Rover and Range Rover.
A Corvette, compares very favourably with a Porsche or even a low end Ferrari.
it may compare on paper, but for exactly the same reasons you don't want to compare other vehicles to lexus because of branding/positioning/reputation, comparing a corvette to a porsche or ferrari is absurd.back to the thread point - obviously the k900 does not occupy the mindspace or reputation in the u.s. market that the lexus ls460 does, just as the lexus ls460 does not occupy the mindspace or reputation in the u.s. of the s-class.
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