ALtin107

Matthew McConaughey is Lincoln's saving grace

SW17LS

I don't have an issue with Ford, Ford is making some great and very appealing cars...they've just gutted Lincoln and their dealer network to the point where I don't see them coming back.

mmarshall

Dunno about that. Hyundai and Kia were once about as low in public opinion as an auto company could get....and look where they are today. (heck, you yourself were sold on one of their products).

Right now, one of Lincoln's big problems is probably the Ford Fusion itself. It is such an excellent design that it overshadows even its upscale Lincoln MKZ sedan brother. I've full-reviewed both of them, and, if it were my money, I'd chose the Fusion in a heartbeat....I never did like the 2Gen MKZ. But, with each new products now, Lincoln raises the bar another notch. Give them a few more years, and, if possible, their own chain of dealerships, and I certainly think they can, and will, recover.

SW17LS

Different situation entirely. Hyundai and Kia were strong and profitable in their own markets. They have models that allow enough volume to open and sustain a dealer network.

Lincoln is simply a division of Ford, and unless Ford is going to be willing to invest enough in the brand to bring them back to at least what they were in the 90s, with their own dealers, service centers, etc they're never going to come back to the point where they're a player like say Cadillac.

Its a question of investment by Ford.

mmarshall

i don't know if you saw the addition i made to my post above, but IMO, one of Lincoln's most significant problems today is the superb Ford Fusion itself, which is such a nice mid-size sedan that it basically eclipses its more expensive Lincoln MKZ cousin. I never did think much of the 2Gen MKZ....even after a full-review.

SW17LS

The reason that the Fusion eclipses the MKZ is that the MKZ is not a very good product. The same will be true of this Continental.

Until they get serious about designing really excellent and appealing cars, this will continue to be a problem.

Stroock639

yea true but i just like to poke fun at ford. 7-8 years ago if someone asked me what to get i'd say avoid anything ford or chrysler and i'd probably still say the same about chrysler but ford has some not bad stuff out right now. i'm still a bit unhappy that the explorer is no longer sticking to it's body on frame roots but considering what most people probably use them for i'm sure they made the right choice. effin cops use them now so i always get cautious when i'm approaching one lol.

chromedome

Lincoln seem to think their products could do well in China but Cadillac and Buick are a lot more popular there. I've seen a few MKwhatever SUVs and that's about it. The brand seems to be gutted with not much chance of a comeback unless they come up with a lot of good new models at once. The Continental could also have a hard time competing against the cheaper ES/Avalon unless Lincoln priced the hybrid the same as the gas model.

mmarshall

Both Ford and Chrysler have, overall, markedly improved their products in the last 8 years or so. though some of them are still hit or miss in the reliability department.

You are correct that the Explorer went unibody for a reason....fewer and fewer of its customers use them for off-roading or heavy towing today. Also, advances in metal alloys and engineering have led to unibody vehicles, in some cases, being able to tow more than they used to.

Nothing wrong with being cautious even if they aren't around. Their simple presence doesn't change the laws of physics, or what can happen from careless driving.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

you don't buy/lease any luxury car to save money.

i absolutely believe cadillac can be competitive with anyone. i've not been in a ct6, but the reviews have been very very positive. gm makes world class drive trains and world beating sophisticated active suspensions. i have no doubt the ct6 is awesome. even the new xt5 is getting big praise for being supremely comfortable and quiet. since i'm into suv/cuvs if i were in the market i'd be checking one of those out. i wouldn't be doing it to save money although of course budget's always a consideration for most! i'm not likely to be getting a cayenne turbo.

anyway, back to lincoln... they've got their work cut out to make any dent in the luxury market.

SW17LS

Saving money is relative lol. My point is, if I were to go from the tier of cars I'm in, to this CT6 I would want to pay less than I'm paying now. That would be the case on the CT6 as long as its not the Platinum model, but to ease the sting of going to a Cadillac I would generally want the loaded up trim.

If its a question of $1,000 a month for a CT6, or $1,200 a month for the next gen LS, or a 7 Series or an S Class...I would pay the $200 a month more. If it were say $700 or $750 for a CT6 vs that $1,200, I would have to seriously consider the CT6 given what I perceive as a point of diminishing return with how expensive these flagship cars are.

A $65k optioned CT6 would be around that payment. Now, bear in mind I full expect the CT6 to be buyable with $10-15k off the sticker very shortly, so hell...who knows that $88k Platinum might lease out that low.

This is Cadillacs problem. The product is good and appealing, but consumers aren't going to move to Cadillac and pay what they were paying for their Lexus, BMW, MB, etc. We're going to want value.

LexBob2

On Monday I drove a new well equipped, not loaded, MKX that listed in the mid $50k range. My preferred engine in this CUV is the 2.7L Eco Boost, it does a better job of moving the +4,500lb vehicle, but adds an additional $2k to the price. While a nice vehicle, for a variety of reasons, I wouldn't be comfortable spending that much on a Lincoln (personal bias) even though discounts are pretty good on them. I'm going to drive a new XT5 today but unless it blows me away, I might feel the same about a Caddy.

Stroock639

some of the taxi services i know are phasing out the town car and using these instead. from what i remember the ride isn't nearly as comfortable as the town car, i can't believe i'm actually sad to see those things go lol.

mmarshall

Believe it. And you are not alone by any means....you've got more company than you think.

Aron9000

Yeah Ford kind of perfected indestructibility with the 2000's Town Car and Crown Vic. I've thought about buying one because I do love a boat. Then I remember 225hp and 15-17mpg and come to my senses. Really wish they had updated the old 4.6 V8 in those cars or put in the bigger 5.4 truck motor.