Toys4RJill

I wouldn't but a $50k + car ever. I would lease one. The new Continental is a nice car, I would probably get one over Lexus product simply because the engines and platforms are sold old.

SW17LS

Thanks. This is something that interests me a lot both personally and professionally, I've done a lot of research into the topic, and I've sat through many presentations and lectures on the subject.

Important thing to realize is that these are not "hard and fast" rules. I for instance am a millennial, I was born in 1981, but my tastes are far older than my generation would suggest, always have been (evidenced by the cars I've chosen to buy), if Mike is a baby boomer I would argue his tastes are also older than his generation would suggest. Because a few people choose to buy stuff that they "shouldn't" want because of their generation doesn't mean these generalities are wrong. The reason why these "classifications" of generations have been created from a business perspective is to help companies tailor their approach to marketing to certain demographics in such a way so that it speaks to the desires that the largest group of consumers in that demographic are going to have.

You can't use me as an example that "see, millennials really do want big comfortable cars", they really don't. I don't know anybody personally my age group who drives anything like what I drive, and yes I do know other people who are financially capable of doing so.

mmarshall

I agree.....that's why I don't want to get too deeply into that right here. Right now, I'm concentrating on the car itself...and my upcoming review.


As a Boomer myself, I'd like to own something larger and more silky-riding than I actually do, but my everyday parking and traffic conditions don't accommodate big cars well. I haven't owned a true luxury-car since the 70s, but my Lexus IS300 and Buick Verano were nice compromises.

That's true.....but the Boomers are rapidly moving into the WWII age group that formerly bought the De Villes, DTS, and Town Car. And not all of them are Audi or Bimmer-Philes, especially the way they have messed up the BMW steering systems in the last several years.


Well, again, I'm to going to make any out-and-out predictions here (and yours are duly-noted). But, I think when one compares the Continental's looks and interior to the CT6s, the Continental may (?) turn out to be a little more popular than you give it credit for. But, we'll see. The base Continental also one-ups the base-level CT6 by having a nice N/A V6 to the CT6's turbo 4. (and the base Continental has a lower price to boot).

Well, it was a retro-street-rod design that recalled what many teenagers and ex-GIs were driving in the late 40s and 50s, after WWII. Other retro designs, like the Miata (which brought back the small British roadsters of the 50s/60s), Chrysler PT Cruiser (which brought back the stying of the '30s gangster cars), Chevy HHR (which brought back the panel-trucks of the late 40s), and, of course, retro Mustangs, were successful. The Prowler , though, just turned out to be too outrageous, too impractical, and too expensive.

SW17LS

Something to add to what I posted above:

An important thing to realize about marketing is that marketing isn't a trigger pull, you don't market as a company to get people to see one ad and call you. Marketing shapes people's perceptions about your company and your product so that when they do make a purchase decision, their opinion of you and your product is what you want it to be. Ever wonder why they market Cotton? Or why they market Pfizer as a company? Do you think people go out and say "I want to buy some cotton clothes" or "I want my to go see what medications Pfizer has", no, it changes the consumers perception of the product itself so that over time, they have a favorable opinion. Marketing is a long term plan.

Seeing that marketing IS a long term plan, thats why you don't market to old people...because their minds are made up after a lifetime of experiences and preconceptions, and because quite frankly they won't live long enough to make the marketing dollars start to pay off. THAT is why that 18-24 demographic you hear about is so valuable, those people are malleable, and you can make an impact on them and it sets the stage for a lifetime of business they can bring you.

mmarshall

No "if" about it.

Well, I DID have a big Buick Electra and Chrysler Newport in college, before I was 20.....I liked big American luxury cars even as a teenager LOL . (and, yes, I also liked the muscle-cars, like most teens)

(And, for that matter, I like auto talk about any kind of car, at any time...I'm a true car enthusiast).

SW17LS

But this shows your own bias. Because those people are now entering into the physical age that silent generation and greatest generation purchasers were back when the Town Car and DTS were around does not mean that they will want the same things those consumers wanted. Boomers do not want to get old, and they do not want to die, and they have a strong desire to be perceived in a certain way. Previous generations of consumers didn't have those hangups. What boomers love overwhelmingly is themselves and their achievements. They want things around them that remind them of life and living, not age and dying. Thats why they don't want the car that their parents had when they were old and failing, and they certainly don't want a car thats used as a hearse or funeral car.

Your comment about "especially with BMW steering systems being messed up" illustrates the issue. If a boomer consumer were angry because of how BMW messed up their steering, that means they place value on a car with precise agile steering, why would that make them want to buy a big FWD Taurus platform Lincoln Continental?!? Do you see how that doesn't make sense? If they would be interested in that Continental, they should love a looser, floatier BMW.

Thats another point...they DO love that looser floatier BMW...thats why BMW sales are up and thats why BMW has made that shift. But to those boomers its still a BMW, its still "young" and "sporty". They're not going to buy a Lincoln Continental. It may be that many of them actually would like the Continental...but will they pull the trigger and buy one? I'm betting not at those prices. Maybe if it were a really good value.

In any event, lets not overstate how many Town Car and Deville buyers there were. They never sold as many of those vehicles a year as they do the 5 series or E Class, or the Lexus ES as an example. You always refer to them like they're pure gold that Cadillac and Lincoln let fall away. Fact is, the XTS was selling as well as the Deville was.

We've yet to establish that the CT6 will have any success, so comparisons there don't yet make any sense. Personally I think the CT6 will also ultimately be a sales disappointment.

If you look at Mustang demographics though, the buyers you mention aren't the typical Mustang buyer. Plus, a Mustang is fair more mainstream and practical. The Prowler was always supposed to be a niche vehicle, I'm surprised you don't understand that. Its like the Chevy SSR truck. Never supposed to be a volume vehicle.

mmarshall

That's one area where I disagree, though. Buying a TC or DTS does not mean you have one foot in the grave. I've already mentioned that I had a car like that (and loved it) as a teen-ager, when I was young, strong as an ox, playing football, and knocking people on their butts LOL.


The base model does seem to be a decent value...just like the Verano is at 25K. Ted Britt has some Continentals on order (they haven't arrived yet) that list as low as 45K (base CT6s, in contrast, start at 53-54K). I'm going to try and review a base model myself.




Well, to an extent, I do understand that...but I didn't think it would turn out as much of a niche as it actually was. For reasons which we have already discussed, it didn't (or couldn't) sell. And I only used the Prowler as a sample to illustrate that, while I don't always agree with other people's predictions, mine aren't always right either.

If my memory is right, many of the limited SSR production went to celebrities. Tom Cruise, I think, got the first one.

SW17LS

You weren't listening to what I said. These are not hard and fast rules. You and I are not typical examples of our generations. My first new car I ever bought was a Lexus ES, I was 22. That's not normal, most 22 year olds who would have purchased something entirely different. I bought my LS when I was 34, also very unusual.

The fact is that average Town Car and Deville buyers were well over 60. Average ES buyers are over 60, average LS buyers are over 60. Just because there are outliers doesn't mean that those demographics aren't accurate. They are accurate.

In marketing you can't swing for the fringes, there aren't enough me and yous to change these demographics. That's Lincolns issue, their only buyer is a niche buyer. They need to get out of that niche and this doesn't do it. If this were RWD on a new Lincoln platform that was going to form the basis of their new cars for the future I would feel totally differently. This car strives to be "good enough", that's not going to get people to look past the stigma of the logo on the grille.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

i believe it's actually a line from an old movie called crazy people.

i have no idea what you're saying. devilles, dts, and town car are gone as are the wwii generation (rip). and 'wwi gen' and 'boomers' are hardly monolithic. and if wwii gen liked floaty rides with effortless steering, and if boomers are getting up there, that would explain why bmw has softened their steering effort. 'messed up' is your opinion, maybe it's more about adapting to market conditions, and after all, they're doing very well, so maybe they know something.

since you can't buy them and the buyers are mostly all dead, maybe it does.

mmarshall

Perhaps I could have used a better term than "messed up", but the point was that recent BMW products have lost the fine tactile-feel they used to have to steering and suspension. And that tactile-feel did not mean a harsh ride, either.....those older BMWs had a superb combination of smooth ride AND great steering that IMO was hard to beat.

Anyhow, back to the Continental (thread topic). Although there are many static reviews and videos available, I'm getting a little concerned with the almost complete lack of either videos or narratives for actual test-drive reports. That is highly unusual on an all-new car this close to introduction. We discussed it a little previously as to possible reasons (maybe a new marketing strategy)? But we certainly didn't see that with the CT6, which had numerous test-drive reports before its release. Jill brought up the question of if maybe there is maybe something to hide. I won't go quite that far........It's hard to keep a lid on the auto press. But, nevertheless, it is still a valid point.

chikoo

where is Ferdinand Piech when we need him

mmarshall

Was that an actual car for sale......with a price sticker on it? It is not unusual for prototype or early-production vehicles, especially program (company-owned vehicles) to have some teething problems. Still, I would not consider those very small panel-gap variations to be a major issue...especially if camera-lens distortion is adding to it, which is common with cell-phone cameras.

Toys4RJill

Yes there was. When have you seen a car dealer have a vehicle on display that they have no intentions to sell? This was a brand new vehicle. The second Continental that I have seen at this same dealer.

Not unusual is NOT acceptable. Ford has been building cars for how many years? This should not happen. I did not rule out that this could simply be a one-off glitch, but for a major launch and a vehicle that is stickers at $78K, it simply is not acceptable.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

agreed 100%. i guess they never looked at an ls460.

mmarshall

I have....more than once. I've also seen the opposite.....company-owned (program) vehicles sold that did not have a price-sticker on them. A co-worker of mine who I was shopping with, once bought a Ford F-150 that way.

In that case, then maybe they are just releasing them sooner in Canada than here in the U.S. Word from Lincon is that U.S.-spec models will be out in the next few weeks.



I didn't say it was necessarily acceptable....simply not unusual.

When I do my own review, I will look at the panels closely on my test-sample to see if they are the same way. But I have also found, through experience, that wide or uneven panel-gaps don't necessarily detract from the build-quality, or cause wind-noise. A car with uneven gaps can still drive as solid as a rock, without rattles/squeaks or wind noise.