SW17LS

It's a discussion forum, that's the whole point. We talk about it because we're passionate about cars and we enjoy talking about this stuff. If you don't want to talk about it in this way, then you don't have to participate.

Why do people sit around and debate Football coaching scenarios? Why don't they go "join the coaching staff"? Because they're passionate about football and they enjoy talking about it and debating about it with the understanding that none of it is ever going to make any difference in the coaching decisions of a particular team.

Absent that, what's the point of having this forum in the first place?

mmarshall

Agreed. I wish we had had forums like this decades ago, when so many lemons and poorly-made vehicles were being foistered off on the public by smooth-talking salespeople and company reps. I get irked when I think back of how much money was wasted on them (including some of mine)......and how much trouble they caused buyers, at least partly because there was so little communication. Back then, forums, PCs, Smartphones, and even the Internet were all stuff of the future.

SW17LS

Yep, and I think it's really cool as a car enthusiast that this specific forum is here and that so many people who don't own or no longer own Lexus vehicles have stuck around and continued to participate in it. While it's clearly a part of ClubLexus it's really another forum in and of itself with unique participants, etc.

Toys4RJill

^ Like I said, there is no secret sauce on door gaps. You either make the gap small or you don't, any car manufacturer its able to achieve this if they want to, Lexus was able to market this aspect along with what their whole brand stood for at the time. I believe GM cars thanks to Bob Lutz has gotten their alignment up to Lexus standards. In the case of Lincoln, this small detail should be done right!!!!

Toys4RJill

How would a car not be able to run to 200,000 miles with panel gaps that are not aligned? That makes no sense. The panel gaps on the Lincoln that I saw are absolutely part of poor quality in the assembly process and some point. I have only seen it on this one model so I would assume that other Continentals will not have this issue.



◢Auto-Saved

chikoo

There is either passion or fear when you want things done the way they should be done. Seems like Lincoln assembly line workers are not motivated enough by either one.

SW17LS

Thats not entirely true. There is secret sauce when it comes to small and uniform panel gaps as pertains to cost of production. In order to achieve really tight gaps and tolerances every aspect of production and engineering has to be done with much more quality control. You can't have different pieces off in size or cut, slows down the speed at which parts are assembled, which increases cost. Accuracy=cost.

mmarshall

To set gap-tolerance for production cars, engineers have to do tests to see how much the body panels expand and contract in the heat. Make them too tight (as what also sometimes happens when dealerships or owners stick on those door-edge-guards), and the doors will either bind when they open and close, or will rub off the paint on the edges if done enough times. That is an especially important issue with plastic panels (which contract and expand significantly), which is why the 1990s Saturns had such wide gaps.

There's a reason, Jill, why these engineers make the money they do. They have to work for it

SW17LS

I'm not an engineer but I don't know that you have a lot of expansion and contraction in a steel or aluminum body panel to where you have to worry about panel gaps...

mmarshall

Definitely not as much as with plastic....that's why steel body panels have much narrower gaps. Aluminum ones don't seem to have a set rule for gap-widths.....like you said, we'd probably have to ask the engineers why.

MattyG

Yes, I understand that and you spotted a dealership sample, but statistically that sample is now one out of how many? btw did you go back to the dealership during business hours and ask them about these assembly quality issues and why they are hoping to sell that particular car for nearly $80KCAD?

LOL. Yes that is the modern internet, which is the same as the old internet.

Gotta love how you've given yourself the "we" title like your some sort of representative of what people think about this topic or that topic on car chat. Thankfully you've been on my ignore list for months, so this is a rare exception. If you don't like my remarks or feel the urge to tell me to get lost, you are welcome to put me on your ignore list.

Yes it does, doesn't it? I want to criticize the Continental on the basis of its platform, price and value for money. I'm not a Ford product planner, or a demographics/marketing expert specific to the auto industry. If I was, then I would be making some big bucks working for them. I share your opinion on this particular car. Wait and see.

Sulu

Panel misalignment is a sin that is easy to commit but difficult to correct, for both the one instance that we see and for all other cars that were made on that same assembly line. It just takes (a lot of) extra time as the panels are being assembled onto the car.

Wide panel gaps, especially if they are equally wide on both sides of the panel or equally wide all around the car, are just that: wide gaps. They may be even more difficult to correct than misaligned panels, especially on the final assembly line. Consistently wide panel gaps, all around the car and on all cars that came off the same assembly line may be indicative of poor design (too much tolerance in the design) or panels that were manufactured in a size too small (which may point back to poor design). This is a problem that may not be able to be corrected until there is a major change (as at the first start of production after prototypes were built, or at a mid-model change), when a top-down change of design to manufacturing to final assembly can be made. But these top-down changes are expensive; it is better to build it right the first time ("Quality is Job One").

But as long as the panels fulfill their job -- do not allow water or noise into the car -- there is nothing wrong with the car; it just looks bad.

As an example, I will mention all the misaligned driver's doors on so many Buick LaCrosses (the outgoing model) that I have seen. The misalignment was so obvious that it could be seen from a great distance away: the top of the driver's door window frame did not align with the rear door window frame. I never took a close enough inspection to determine if the bottom of the doors were equally misaligned or if the sizes (dimensions) of the door frames where they meet at the B-pillar are different. But the doors -- quite obviously -- did their job by sealing out the elements, so there was no problem. It just looks bad.

mmarshall

I agree...I don't think the current LaCrosse, in general (not just the door alignment), is as well-built as the smaller, Opel-based Buicks. But, even with imperfectly-hung doors, as you note, it's hard to beat that Buick Quiet Tuning process......though some Lexus vehicles also do an excellent job in the decibel-department.

Aron9000

Pretty sad that the panel gaps/fit on my when it was new $12,000 Tacoma are way tighter and more uniform than that bs panel fit on that Lincoln. And now that I look at it a bit more, it does look like a Ford Taurus from the side/greenhouse, with a serious nose job.

GS3Tek

iTrader: (8)

I'm kinda curious if Lincoln workers get paid than Ford workers?

If they did (in this situation), then they're overpaid

If they didn't, then maybe that's why the gap is so bad...................seems like it's a no win situation