2017 Lincoln Continental
04-13-17, 06:57 AM
#1036
Lexus Fanatic
You totally missed the point of what he was saying lol.
Bottom line is because you personally would not spend the money on something that it costs, it doesn't mean its overpriced. I would never buy a Rolex, it just doesn't have any value to me anywhere near what it costs, but that doesn't mean they are overpriced, people buy them the company is successful and to people who appreciate what they are, they are happy to pay. Hell...Rolexes go up in value over time...but if you offered me a Rolex or a Seiko, I'm going to take the Rolex.
Same is true of the S Class, I have chosen not to spend the money on one at this time, but I understand why its better and what makes it better, and clearly many people are able and willing to pay what they charge since it outsells everything else in the segment despite being significantly more expensive. Short of a Rolls Royce or a Bentley, its the nicest sedan you can drive.
To make the Best Buy analogy, there are TVs at BestBuy that cost $8,000. More even. Me? I bought a $2,100 Samsung and I love it, but I understand why that $8,000 TV is better, just for me the value isn't there. To somebody for whom the value is there, they are happy to pay the $8,000. How is it overpriced?
Bottom line is because you personally would not spend the money on something that it costs, it doesn't mean its overpriced. I would never buy a Rolex, it just doesn't have any value to me anywhere near what it costs, but that doesn't mean they are overpriced, people buy them the company is successful and to people who appreciate what they are, they are happy to pay. Hell...Rolexes go up in value over time...but if you offered me a Rolex or a Seiko, I'm going to take the Rolex.
Same is true of the S Class, I have chosen not to spend the money on one at this time, but I understand why its better and what makes it better, and clearly many people are able and willing to pay what they charge since it outsells everything else in the segment despite being significantly more expensive. Short of a Rolls Royce or a Bentley, its the nicest sedan you can drive.
To make the Best Buy analogy, there are TVs at BestBuy that cost $8,000. More even. Me? I bought a $2,100 Samsung and I love it, but I understand why that $8,000 TV is better, just for me the value isn't there. To somebody for whom the value is there, they are happy to pay the $8,000. How is it overpriced?
Anyhow, unless this is somehow related to the Continental's price, we may be getting off-topic. And, yes, some may find the Continental overpriced, especially in the Black Label versions. I think the base models, though, (under 50K) are probably a bargain.
04-13-17, 06:58 AM
#1037
Lexus Fanatic
To say something is "overpriced" you are saying that the manufacturer has priced the product over what its appeal is. To say something is "overpriced" because you don't see the value when people around you do and are buying it is just arrogance.
04-13-17, 08:24 AM
#1038
Lexus Champion
I think the Verano is overpriced, as is the LaCrosse. I don't like them, I don't want either one and if someone wanted to sell me one, it would have to come with a really HUGE discount. It does not matter to me that Mike likes them and is willing to pay (close to) list price for them, I would not. I don't like them, so to me, they are overpriced and no "value" argument is going to persuade me to look at one or the other.
As another example, consider the housing bubble that is really inflating house prices in South-Central Ontario right now. I think that houses are overpriced and although I am looking, I would not buy right now, yet everybody is going crazy jumping into the market right now.
As another example, consider the housing bubble that is really inflating house prices in South-Central Ontario right now. I think that houses are overpriced and although I am looking, I would not buy right now, yet everybody is going crazy jumping into the market right now.
04-13-17, 08:31 AM
#1039
Lexus Fanatic
I think the Verano is overpriced, as is the LaCrosse. I don't like them, I don't want either one and if someone wanted to sell me one, it would have to come with a really HUGE discount. It does not matter to me that Mike likes them and is willing to pay (close to) list price for them, I would not. I don't like them, so to me, they are overpriced and no "value" argument is going to persuade me to look at one or the other.
As another example, consider the housing bubble that is really inflating house prices in South-Central Ontario right now. I think that houses are overpriced and although I am looking, I would not buy right now, yet everybody is going crazy jumping into the market right now.
In a couple years a house you buy in your market now may loose value is why you are concerned. Every car you buy is going to loose value, its a question of a manufacturer's set MSRP being correct or not.
If a manufacturer offers a car for sale and people buy that car and hit their projections as far as sales volume, then the car is not overpriced in an objective sense.
04-13-17, 01:20 PM
#1040
Lexus Champion
Again, what we are trying to do is talk about cars objectively, your opinion about the Lacrosse being overpriced is subjective. I don't like those cars either, but I don't think theres a valid objective argument that they are overpriced compared to their competitors.
This is a different matter. Housing values are a fluctuating target. A manufacturer has not set a price for homes in the marketplace as a response to their competitors offerings. Supply and demand have created a market value and its up to you as a consumer to decide whether now is the right time for you to buy or not. However, these sellers are not "overpricing" their houses if they are setting a price and buyers are buying at that price. If you were selling a home thats exactly what you would do, sell it for as much as you can get.
In a couple years a house you buy in your market now may loose value is why you are concerned. Every car you buy is going to loose value, its a question of a manufacturer's set MSRP being correct or not.
If a manufacturer offers a car for sale and people buy that car and hit their projections as far as sales volume, then the car is not overpriced in an objective sense.
This is a different matter. Housing values are a fluctuating target. A manufacturer has not set a price for homes in the marketplace as a response to their competitors offerings. Supply and demand have created a market value and its up to you as a consumer to decide whether now is the right time for you to buy or not. However, these sellers are not "overpricing" their houses if they are setting a price and buyers are buying at that price. If you were selling a home thats exactly what you would do, sell it for as much as you can get.
In a couple years a house you buy in your market now may loose value is why you are concerned. Every car you buy is going to loose value, its a question of a manufacturer's set MSRP being correct or not.
If a manufacturer offers a car for sale and people buy that car and hit their projections as far as sales volume, then the car is not overpriced in an objective sense.
Last edited by Sulu; 10-05-19 at 07:20 AM.
04-13-17, 01:25 PM
#1041
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by Sulu
OBJECTIVELY, the Verano and the LaCrosse, as well as house prices, may be competitively-priced, but SUBJECTIVELY to me, they are overpriced because they are priced higher than I want to pay for those particular items. We have been talking about over-pricing in terms of value the item would offer to the potential buyer. Value is subjective: What you value (in a Rolex watch, for example) may not be what I value in a watch.
04-13-17, 01:50 PM
#1042
I think the base S-class is a little bit over-priced considering what IS NOT STANDARD and how much options can cost. Things like ventilated seats, push button start, heads up display, the automated driving functions, a rear seat that reclines, all of that is optional. Not to mention the IMO ugly base wheels. That stuff I listed is about 10-15k worth of options, stuff that IMO should be standard on this class of car. I was playing around the Benz webpage configuring the S-class. Its very easy to put $30,000 worth of options on a basic S550, but I do appreciate that they give you all kinds of neat options for the interior(paint choices suck IMO), you can really personalize the interior with different leathers and wood trim.
04-13-17, 03:00 PM
#1043
Lexus Fanatic
German cars are always that way with options. Conservative with options I get to about $110-115k. When you drive it however, it really is the cream of the crop.
04-13-17, 06:29 PM
#1044
Lexus Fanatic
OBJECTIVELY, the Verano and the LaCrosse, as well as house prices, may be competitively-priced, but SUBJECTIVELY to me, they are overpriced because they are priced higher than I want to pay for those particular items. We have been talking about over-pricing in terms of value the item would offer to the potential buyer. Value is subjective: What you value (in a Rolex watch, for example) may not be what I value in a watch.
04-13-17, 06:43 PM
#1045
Lexus Fanatic
I think the Verano is overpriced, as is the LaCrosse. I don't like them, I don't want either one and if someone wanted to sell me one, it would have to come with a really HUGE discount. It does not matter to me that Mike likes them and is willing to pay (close to) list price for them.
Vehicles can vary quite a bit in their mark-up from wholesale (invoice) to retail....maybe 5 or 6% for small cheap econoboxes to as much as 20% for larger trucks and SUVs....so the amount of bargaining room the dealer has varies by vehicle. Then, options and packages on the vehicle, too, carry a certain mark-up. It's often quite difficult to determine exactly what a dealer paid for a vehicle, though sometimes you can come fairly close. Second, show me another car in the American market that starts in the low 20s and provides the kind of quietness/refinement and sophistication the Verano does, and I'll believe you. Third, have you driven one?.....Although I'm sometimes turned off by first-time images, in general, I don't usually say I dislike something before giving it an inspection an test-drive.
As another example, consider the housing bubble that is really inflating house prices in South-Central Ontario right now. I think that houses are overpriced and although I am looking, I would not buy right now, yet everybody is going crazy jumping into the market right now.
04-13-17, 07:44 PM
#1046
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
value is definitely subjective and personal, there is no objectivity to it.
someone buying a million dollar diamond ring TO ME is pretty insane, but to a billionaire, it's a lovely unqiue gift for someone special.
on a more mundane note, buying bottled water is insane because it costs way more per gallon than gasoline, something almost infinitely harder to make. but to billions of people, bottled water is perfectly worth what it's priced at.
someone buying a million dollar diamond ring TO ME is pretty insane, but to a billionaire, it's a lovely unqiue gift for someone special.
on a more mundane note, buying bottled water is insane because it costs way more per gallon than gasoline, something almost infinitely harder to make. but to billions of people, bottled water is perfectly worth what it's priced at.
04-13-17, 08:35 PM
#1047
Lexus Fanatic
It sells for a dollar a gallon in our local grocery stores here. Of course, in Flint, MI, where they had that massive water-pollution crisis, the sky might have been the omit.
04-19-17, 08:50 PM
#1048
Lexus Fanatic
The new Continental just made Wards 10 best list for interiors. Really nice to see it make it. Well deserved.
Ps (Ward's lists are pretty much meaningless). LC500 made it to the list as well.
Ps (Ward's lists are pretty much meaningless). LC500 made it to the list as well.
04-20-17, 06:17 AM
#1049
Lexus Fanatic
http://www.motortrend.com/news/wards...ist-announced/
I agree that this list probably doesn't mean a whole lot. Anyhow, I myself would have had the Genesis G80's interior on it...both for its general appearance and the high quality of its hardware/construction.
Last edited by mmarshall; 04-20-17 at 06:21 AM.
04-20-17, 06:25 AM
#1050
Lexus Fanatic
The G80 didn't qualify to be on the list this year. It has to have a new or substantially revised interior this year to be eligible.