I8ABMR

WOW I am happy this thread took off. The points made are so true. Between the exchange rate and image everyone thinks German cars are better because they are more expensive. NOT THE CASE !
Lexus will be a force to be taken seriously now that they are producing reliable AND fun to drive cars.


Cake eaten .......LOL

Trump2016

Any thought of owning an MB evaporated for me when test-driving an SL500, when that piece of junk just shut down in the middle of a three-lane road at 60. Recently, $200k SL63's are reportedly doing the same thing.

I love my wife and myself too much to run that kind of risk.

TangoRed

SL63's don't cost $200k, but 6400 S63 cars were intermittently stalling when stopped or close to stopping due to a software fault with the fuel delivery. Haven't heard about SL63's doing that. Who knows what was wrong with that SL500, but I hope it wasn't brand new! That's a terrible and scary experience.

Reminds me of when my old X5 ate its alternator and I had to coast to the side of a highway.

BrownPride

Up until my recent Lexus purchase I have always had German cars and aside from the Chrysler-era Mercedes, German cars are leaps and bounds ahead of Lexus. Lexus has made great strides with all their models since the launch of the current GS but they still fall short in many areas. Sure they are more reliable, but it comes at a price. Lexus is always slow when it comes to updating new engines, transmissions, technology, etc. The interiors still use far more plastics than you'll find in German counterparts.

I am taking a very objective approach though it may not seem like it. German cars are still the pinnacle of engineering and now that Mercedes is back to making good vehicles (their SUVs stink but the new S-class and C-class are amazing) they're stronger than every before.

BrownPride

Sorry but which Lexus is particularly fun to drive compared to the German competition? The closest thing Lexus offers is the RC-F which is 400 lbs heavier than the M4, has a lower power-to-weight ratio, is slower, and is overall less fun to drive than the Bimmer. iDrive is also far ahead of Lexus Remote Touch and the interiors aren't even comparable. Does Lexus still not offer full leather dashboards and doors on the RC-F? Overall the RC-F has been universally panned by the press not because it's a bad car, but because it's 5 years behind the competition.

The coming GS-F is showing up late to the party without any ammunition. The powertrain alone renders it useless in the face of the M5 and E63.

Aron9000

I believe you're forgetting about the best car in that whole *****-to-the wall sedan catergory. The new Caddy CTS-V has 650hp, your choice of manual or automatic trannys, and the same guys who did the Corvette suspension/chassis have done this car, so it handles/drives amazingly. I'd say Lexus is more like 10 years behind Cadillac, at least in terms of the horsepower wars.

MattyG

The Germans decided a long time ago, probably in the mid-90's that they only needed to engineer cars for as long as their customers wanted to hang onto them. Here we are today. A German car is designed to please its owner for as long as the warranty and that's about it for reliability. But it doesn't matter does it?

If you keep bringing new tech, styling and distinctiveness to the market and your prospective buyers are first adopters and they don't care about reliability or consumer complaints. They just gotta have it. It's the same reason people buy the newest ipad, iphone etc.

And those German car owners will keep buying as long as it suits them. They have disposable income and a high vehicle turnover while enjoying the prestige, styling and status is ok.

You will rarely see Audi, BMW or Mercedes Benz advertising their long term reliability or Consumer Reports rankings and JD Power studies. They don't have to. Lexus does.

mmarshall

Audi DOES have reason to publicize some of those things now. The brand, one known as a money-pit, has experienced huge increases in reliability the last several years.....to the point where, according to CR, it is now the third-most reliable brand, right behind Lexus and Toyota.

dseag2

I haven't read in the forums about too many late model Audis having issues with the 8-speed Tiptronics, but my S5's have all had the 7-speed DSG trannies. Audi has announced they are putting the 8-speed Tip in the 2017 S5, so I may go with a leftover '16 S5 or come back to Lexus. My lease is up in January 2017, so I'm already on the hunt!

dseag2

Maybe you missed all the comparos that were released when the GS F Sport was first introduced where it consistently out-handled the 5 Series. Like the following...


The current E Class didn't even compare. Maybe the A6, with the 3.0 Supercharged engine and Sport Differential, but that was never tested.

Here's another one...

I8ABMR

dseag2

I don't even know why anyone would choose a 535i after seeing those videos. You get a more fun car to drive with all the bells and whistles and without the hassles of unscheduled service. It helped me make my decision when shopping for sedans.

I know I am speaking out against the Germans now, so I should make it clear that the S5 is still the only coupe in its price range that I would own.

97-SC300

iTrader: (17)

Germans do make many FINE automobiles. Majority of the cars I work on are German. I have definitely developed a love towards some of their cars including 911's/Caymans, Mercedes AMG, and BMW M Cars, as well as many Audis (loved driving an RS7). I've had some new cars and older cars and tend to keep a car I like for a long time. Knowing alot of the owners of these German cars, pretty much nobody keeps them past the warranty period either because they already had way too many costly issues or they know these issues are right around the corner from other owners' experiences.

If you're the type of individual that likes to get a new car every few years to have the most modern, state of the art technology, than Germans do have the best selection of any other group of cars. You can't deny the innovation they bring to the table.

BrownPride

These reviews are always a mixed bag. I've seen plenty of comparisons that have the 5-series being more fun to drive than the GS. Also keep in mind that the 5-series just underwent an LCI refresh which did sort out some of the chassis and steering issues the car had previously.

I've driven both and while the GS didn't feel like your usual Lexus to me I wasn't particularly impressed. To be fair, BMW watered down the 5-series with the F10 generation so it's not like the 5er is leaps and bounds more fun to drive.

Driving aside, the 5-series offers options such as Nappa leather, a variety of different leather colors, several trim pieces ranging from a couple types of aluminum to several wood grains, leather stitched doors, etc. It's a better car overall than the GS though I do not deny the GS being a fantastic car in its own right which is a much better long-term ownership proposition than the BMW.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

but with the same argument it's a subjective call now rather than a one sided story. your initial statement made it sounded like no lexus car is fun which doesn't hold any weight at all by the same argument.

this is vs in the past when pretty much no chance a lexus could hold the fun to drive crown over the germans by any press (or drivers)

i am not saying lexus is better either, i think the gs handles better than the 5 in terms of chassis, but in terms of features the 5 is ahead. i am just saying your argument on fun to drive doesn't hold up at all