Gas prices...
#226
Lexus Fanatic
Are Chevron stations switching to other brands there in CA? Here, in my area, two former (and reasonably-priced) Chevron stations have switched over to Liberty, a cut-rate brand that probably, can't hold a candle to Chevron. Chevron is getting hard to find around here.
#227
Lexus Test Driver
Well, at least where I live we have pretty much have all the big players with their own refineries.
ExxonMobil, Arco/BP, Chevron, Conoco-Phillips, Valero, Tesoro (don't even know who they supply) all have refineries almost in the same area code--so finding Chevron is a non-issue for me.
Chevron, interestingly--often has very competitive in the South Bay next to Costco--whose prices can't really be matched by anybody.
ExxonMobil, Arco/BP, Chevron, Conoco-Phillips, Valero, Tesoro (don't even know who they supply) all have refineries almost in the same area code--so finding Chevron is a non-issue for me.
Chevron, interestingly--often has very competitive in the South Bay next to Costco--whose prices can't really be matched by anybody.
#228
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Look - yes, they do. They might quote internal numbers for additional bookings on a more favorable price deck, but they still follow the SEC rules ("the SEC method") for what they can book.
This is the point of your misunderstanding. You are confusing methodology with the measuring metric.
This is the point of your misunderstanding. You are confusing methodology with the measuring metric.
Pricing in AZ is still decent @ $3.66 a gallon for regular at my local Costco. Not sure what premium is running, as I haven't had to fill up in a bit. I haven't had to change my driving habits much, thankfully, and I'm going three weeks between fillups in the DD. Combine it with the discounts for membership and using the my corp card, it brings the cost down to $3.41 a gallon. Not cheap, but a damn sight better than what some are shelling out when I see numbers of $4.99 a gallon.
Big Mack
#229
Lexus Test Driver
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You're killing me. Look, you're talking about the valuation reserves and I'm not. I'm strictly referring to the article and you're not. I thought this was clear:
Hopefully the point finally gets through the last layer of concrete because I'm not sure why you keep trying to confuse the two so you look right.
Pricing in AZ is still decent @ $3.66 a gallon for regular at my local Costco. Not sure what premium is running, as I haven't had to fill up in a bit. I haven't had to change my driving habits much, thankfully, and I'm going three weeks between fillups in the DD. Combine it with the discounts for membership and using the my corp card, it brings the cost down to $3.41 a gallon. Not cheap, but a damn sight better than what some are shelling out when I see numbers of $4.99 a gallon.
Big Mack
Hopefully the point finally gets through the last layer of concrete because I'm not sure why you keep trying to confuse the two so you look right.
Pricing in AZ is still decent @ $3.66 a gallon for regular at my local Costco. Not sure what premium is running, as I haven't had to fill up in a bit. I haven't had to change my driving habits much, thankfully, and I'm going three weeks between fillups in the DD. Combine it with the discounts for membership and using the my corp card, it brings the cost down to $3.41 a gallon. Not cheap, but a damn sight better than what some are shelling out when I see numbers of $4.99 a gallon.
Big Mack
Stop hiding behind one number in an article. The discussion is not as simple as you'd like to make it out to be.
Exxon is using an internal price forecast that is higher than the SEC price deck. This results in wells that would be uneconomical under the SEC price deck, to be economic using their internal forecast. They are quoting these wells in that number.
Now, as to what the SEC guidelines allow you to book, the rule set determining the number of wells they can evaluate is the same for either their internal price deck, or the SEC price deck; ie, the methodology is the same. Valuation is essential, because if a well isn't economic, it's not reserves. So when you try to say you aren't talking about valuation - well, yes, you are - maybe you just don't know it?
Here is a good article on the SEC booking guidelines. If you look at it, you'll see that they actually discuss different price decks; i.e., like Exxon is evaluating their wells (what is economic or not, and therefore the resulting different reserves number) using both an internal price and and the SEC price deck.
When you say
Originally Posted by "Big Mack
The article referenced that XOM does not use the SEC method when discussing reserves such as these was the point I was making.
If you need help understanding any of that document, let me know.
Last edited by Infra; 04-28-11 at 08:35 PM.
#230
Lexus Champion
NEW YORK - Exxon made almost $11 billion and practically apologized for it.
Sensing public outrage over gasoline prices that have topped $4 in some states, the company struck a defensive posture Thursday after posting some of its best quarterly financial results ever.
Exxon said it had no control over high oil prices. It said it's one of the biggest taxpayers in the United States. It cast federal subsidies as "legitimate tax provisions" that keep jobs at home, and cast itself as a victim of Washington scapegoating.
"They feel they have to demonize our industry," said Ken Cohen, Exxon's vice president for public affairs.
What's more, the company argued, it doesn't even make that much money selling gasoline.
Exxon's profit of $10.65 billion for the first quarter was its highest since it made $14.83 billion in the third quarter of 2008, a record for a publicly traded company. That was also a time of $4-plus gas.
The first-quarter results were also the best among the big oil companies, which have reported improved results this week.
As oil company profits approach levels of three years ago, when gas prices last spiked in the United States, the industry is fighting a renewed push from President Barack Obama and Democrats to end its $4 billion a year in taxpayer subsidies.
This week, the industry's lobbying group touted the 9.2 million jobs that depend on Big Oil and rolled out a study showing that oil and gas stocks are excellent investments for public pension plans.
Before it even came out with the quarterly results, Exxon pleaded its case on a company blog, saying it was not to blame for high gas prices.
Then Cohen took an unusual step and spoke to reporters after Exxon reported the big profits. He said Exxon pays more taxes than any other company in the Standard & Poor's 500 index — $59 billion in the United States over the past five years.
After taxes, the company earned $41 billion from U.S. operations during that period.
Drivers and politicians may still need some convincing. Gas costs more than $4 a gallon in eight states and the District of Columbia. The national average is $3.89 and has risen for 37 straight days.
At a time when most people aren't getting raises, gas has risen 81 cents a gallon this year. High gas prices ate into the nation's overall economic growth in the first three months of this year. The economy grew at a 1.8 percent annual rate, slower than the 3.1 percent at the end of last year.
Cohen has a point that Exxon doesn't control the price of oil or gasoline. Oil is traded around the world on public exchanges, and experts point out that the world is consuming more oil now than it did before the recession, raising demand. When oil prices go up at the exchange, Exxon sells oil for more money to refiners and other buyers.
Gasoline is made from oil. So while gas prices can rise and fall based on other factors, like refining problems or natural disasters, they generally go up as oil prices rise on the New York Mercantile Exchange.
Exxon noted that only 6 percent of its profit came from refining and selling gas in the United States. Other parts of its business, like selling oil and natural gas overseas, accounted for much more.
Argus Research analyst Phil Weiss finds that argument reasonable. But oil companies will struggle to win over people as long as they're making billions of dollars every quarter, he said.
"They get these high profits and people get upset. That's what politicians respond to," Weiss said.
House Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi called for a vote on ending taxpayer subsidies to oil companies next week. "There is no reason American taxpayers should subsidize Big Oil's profits," Pelosi said.
The tax provisions at issue include some rules put in place as long ago as 1913 and more recent ones designed to encourage companies to invest in the United States.
For instance, a 2004 rule that gives oil and other companies a special deduction for their U.S. operations could save the oil industry $18.2 billion over 10 years. A rule that allows faster depreciation of the value of oil and gas wells could save independent companies — those that only explore and produce oil but don't refine it — about $11 billon over a decade.
Exxon officials said it would be unfair for Obama to end oil subsidies while keeping similar incentives for renewable energy. The Obama administration and clean energy advocates argue that profitable companies do not need special tax treatment while newer industries deserve breaks until they can establish themselves.
It's not likely, though, that Exxon would give up its subsidies if the government also removed them for solar, wind and other renewables.
"Getting into trade-offs is not really helpful," Exxon Vice President Bill Colton said.
Environmental groups say the industry needs no taxpayer help.
"Why does an industry that makes this much money need $4 billion in tax subsidies?" asked Bob Keefe, spokesman for the Natural Resources Defense Council. "Why can't we use that tax money to improve and expand other alternatives, increase vehicle efficiency, better public transportation that would reduce our dependence on oil?"
Exxon counters that the government shouldn't decide which energy companies succeed and which fail. Whichever fuel source "produces the biggest bang for the buck for the consumer" will be the one the market settles on, Cohen said.
The main reason the industry is doing well is that oil prices were up 20 percent from the same period last year. Exxon's profit was 69 percent higher than the $6.3 billion it earned a year earlier. Revenue increased 26 percent, to $114 billion.
The rise in oil prices allowed Exxon to make more money despite producing 3 percent less oil overseas, about 2 million barrels per day, partly because of storms in the Middle East. Exxon sold crude in international markets for about $101 a barrel, up 36 percent from a year ago. In the U.S., Exxon sold oil for about $93 per barrel, up 27 percent from a year ago.
Exxon's per-share earnings of $2.14 beat Wall Street estimates by 10 cents, but oil industry stocks fell anyway because investors fear that demand for gas, which has fallen over the past month compared with last year, will keep dropping in the United States.
The company has increasingly focused on producing natural gas, which it expects to replace coal as the second most important fuel source after petroleum within the next decade. Last year it acquired XTO Energy to become the largest U.S. natural gas producer.
Sensing public outrage over gasoline prices that have topped $4 in some states, the company struck a defensive posture Thursday after posting some of its best quarterly financial results ever.
Exxon said it had no control over high oil prices. It said it's one of the biggest taxpayers in the United States. It cast federal subsidies as "legitimate tax provisions" that keep jobs at home, and cast itself as a victim of Washington scapegoating.
"They feel they have to demonize our industry," said Ken Cohen, Exxon's vice president for public affairs.
What's more, the company argued, it doesn't even make that much money selling gasoline.
Exxon's profit of $10.65 billion for the first quarter was its highest since it made $14.83 billion in the third quarter of 2008, a record for a publicly traded company. That was also a time of $4-plus gas.
The first-quarter results were also the best among the big oil companies, which have reported improved results this week.
As oil company profits approach levels of three years ago, when gas prices last spiked in the United States, the industry is fighting a renewed push from President Barack Obama and Democrats to end its $4 billion a year in taxpayer subsidies.
This week, the industry's lobbying group touted the 9.2 million jobs that depend on Big Oil and rolled out a study showing that oil and gas stocks are excellent investments for public pension plans.
Before it even came out with the quarterly results, Exxon pleaded its case on a company blog, saying it was not to blame for high gas prices.
Then Cohen took an unusual step and spoke to reporters after Exxon reported the big profits. He said Exxon pays more taxes than any other company in the Standard & Poor's 500 index — $59 billion in the United States over the past five years.
After taxes, the company earned $41 billion from U.S. operations during that period.
Drivers and politicians may still need some convincing. Gas costs more than $4 a gallon in eight states and the District of Columbia. The national average is $3.89 and has risen for 37 straight days.
At a time when most people aren't getting raises, gas has risen 81 cents a gallon this year. High gas prices ate into the nation's overall economic growth in the first three months of this year. The economy grew at a 1.8 percent annual rate, slower than the 3.1 percent at the end of last year.
Cohen has a point that Exxon doesn't control the price of oil or gasoline. Oil is traded around the world on public exchanges, and experts point out that the world is consuming more oil now than it did before the recession, raising demand. When oil prices go up at the exchange, Exxon sells oil for more money to refiners and other buyers.
Gasoline is made from oil. So while gas prices can rise and fall based on other factors, like refining problems or natural disasters, they generally go up as oil prices rise on the New York Mercantile Exchange.
Exxon noted that only 6 percent of its profit came from refining and selling gas in the United States. Other parts of its business, like selling oil and natural gas overseas, accounted for much more.
Argus Research analyst Phil Weiss finds that argument reasonable. But oil companies will struggle to win over people as long as they're making billions of dollars every quarter, he said.
"They get these high profits and people get upset. That's what politicians respond to," Weiss said.
House Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi called for a vote on ending taxpayer subsidies to oil companies next week. "There is no reason American taxpayers should subsidize Big Oil's profits," Pelosi said.
The tax provisions at issue include some rules put in place as long ago as 1913 and more recent ones designed to encourage companies to invest in the United States.
For instance, a 2004 rule that gives oil and other companies a special deduction for their U.S. operations could save the oil industry $18.2 billion over 10 years. A rule that allows faster depreciation of the value of oil and gas wells could save independent companies — those that only explore and produce oil but don't refine it — about $11 billon over a decade.
Exxon officials said it would be unfair for Obama to end oil subsidies while keeping similar incentives for renewable energy. The Obama administration and clean energy advocates argue that profitable companies do not need special tax treatment while newer industries deserve breaks until they can establish themselves.
It's not likely, though, that Exxon would give up its subsidies if the government also removed them for solar, wind and other renewables.
"Getting into trade-offs is not really helpful," Exxon Vice President Bill Colton said.
Environmental groups say the industry needs no taxpayer help.
"Why does an industry that makes this much money need $4 billion in tax subsidies?" asked Bob Keefe, spokesman for the Natural Resources Defense Council. "Why can't we use that tax money to improve and expand other alternatives, increase vehicle efficiency, better public transportation that would reduce our dependence on oil?"
Exxon counters that the government shouldn't decide which energy companies succeed and which fail. Whichever fuel source "produces the biggest bang for the buck for the consumer" will be the one the market settles on, Cohen said.
The main reason the industry is doing well is that oil prices were up 20 percent from the same period last year. Exxon's profit was 69 percent higher than the $6.3 billion it earned a year earlier. Revenue increased 26 percent, to $114 billion.
The rise in oil prices allowed Exxon to make more money despite producing 3 percent less oil overseas, about 2 million barrels per day, partly because of storms in the Middle East. Exxon sold crude in international markets for about $101 a barrel, up 36 percent from a year ago. In the U.S., Exxon sold oil for about $93 per barrel, up 27 percent from a year ago.
Exxon's per-share earnings of $2.14 beat Wall Street estimates by 10 cents, but oil industry stocks fell anyway because investors fear that demand for gas, which has fallen over the past month compared with last year, will keep dropping in the United States.
The company has increasingly focused on producing natural gas, which it expects to replace coal as the second most important fuel source after petroleum within the next decade. Last year it acquired XTO Energy to become the largest U.S. natural gas producer.
#231
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#232
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Only filling up with half a tank does nothing. You still need to drive, so you have to get the gas eventually. The only thing that makes a dent is to drive less.
#233
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04/03/11: $4.21 Regular, Chevron, Pasadena, CA.
04/06/11: $4.27 Regular, Chevron, Pasadena, CA.
04/12/11: $4.33 Regular, Chevron, Pasadena, CA.
04/28/11: $4.41 Regular, Chevron, Pasadena, CA.
Premium has reached $4.61.
Yeah, we're heading towards $5+ this summer, wont be surprised if it happens before the end of May.
04/06/11: $4.27 Regular, Chevron, Pasadena, CA.
04/12/11: $4.33 Regular, Chevron, Pasadena, CA.
04/28/11: $4.41 Regular, Chevron, Pasadena, CA.
Premium has reached $4.61.
Yeah, we're heading towards $5+ this summer, wont be surprised if it happens before the end of May.
#234
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Wait for it...keep reading...
At what? Proving you still aren't getting it?
Who is hiding? Certainly not I, who is correct in the discussion. You seem to be the one not willing to admit that when I spoke of the information in the article, you tried to dispute it with information that was not in it and not being referenced by me at all. Perhaps because it was "as simple" as that it slipped by.
No argument. This was what I have stated numerous times. Why reiterate it, or are you admitting that you finally figured out what I was saying all along and never deviated from?
Good God. The concrete is thick. I WAS NEVER TALKING ABOUT VALUATION. Never mentioned stock pricing, nor a value to shareholders, which is entirely what the valuation is for. I was simply stating a synopsis of the article that XOM was showing it had wells it felt were possibly going to yield oil but couldn't be booked under the SEC method because it would be viewed differently than they wanted it viewed.
You're arguing against a point THAT I AM NOT MAKING.
I need no edit because it's not false, unlike "they don't charge for oil." It's never going to get through the concrete that we were talking about different things.
Or maybe it is...
GREAT DAY IN THE MORNING, IT HAS FINALLY BEEN REALIZED!! It's not spin, just truth.
Understanding any of the document? Oh please. Spare me the time of having to read through anymore of your incorrect comparisons so that they can be summarily dismissed.
I'm just happy you finally admitted what I was saying all along was correct. Thank you for finally doing that so this discussion can end on a proper note.
Big Mack
Now, as to what the SEC guidelines allow you to book, the rule set determining the number of wells they can evaluate is the same for either their internal price deck, or the SEC price deck; ie, the methodology is the same. Valuation is essential, because if a well isn't economic, it's not reserves. So when you try to say you aren't talking about valuation - well, yes, you are - maybe you just don't know it?
Or maybe it is...
Understanding any of the document? Oh please. Spare me the time of having to read through anymore of your incorrect comparisons so that they can be summarily dismissed.
I'm just happy you finally admitted what I was saying all along was correct. Thank you for finally doing that so this discussion can end on a proper note.
Big Mack
#236
Lexus Test Driver
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I know what you are claiming. But your claim insists on a lot of assumptions that you seem to accept as axioms, and I have demonstrated most certainly are not.
I've leave it to the readers to judge.
#237
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Exxon has stated that their profit on each gallon of gas is 2 cents. They actually paid MORE in taxes than they made in profits. The federal govt makes nearly 70 cents a gallon in taxes when you combine the corporate taxes and the excise tax we pay. Then the govt is complaining oil companies arent paying their fair share lolwut? So if you confiscate Exxons profits, gas prices drop by a whopping 2 cents, but then skyrockets because a major oil producer shut down
So please put this into perspective and dont listen to the typical demagoguery.
So please put this into perspective and dont listen to the typical demagoguery.
#239
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Hmmm...the admission you were wrong didn't mean you'd give up like you should have...
The fact remains that XOM absolutely and beyond a shadow of any doubt does maintain and build upon reserves in their strategy for profit. It's a strategy that is clearly working for them and the others who follow the same strategy. It's not illegal, nor is it wrong, it's good business, and as it seems to have been lost in the back and forth of clearing through the ridiculousness to this fact, they're not screwing people for gas.
Big Mack
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Poor oil companies, Exon/Mobil only posted a 1.7 Billion dollar PROFIT for the 1st 1/4.
THATS BILLION not Million.
Also when the price goes up so do the taxes on our gas as they are based on a percent of the cost & not the gallon.
THATS BILLION not Million.
Also when the price goes up so do the taxes on our gas as they are based on a percent of the cost & not the gallon.