mmarshall

If you look at the majority of the Owners' Manuals in most new vehicles, while admittedly not identical (because not all engines are identical), they say more or less the same thing about the break-in period. That part of the manual is determined by engineers, not lawyers.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

funny, only if you know what engineers say about the "manuals". it's silly if you think the manuals never get through polishing by lawyers

mmarshall

Most lawyers aren't as concerned about issues with things like engine break-in and oil consumption as they are with things like how infants and small kids should be strapped in, the proper way to sit to minimize the effects of whiplash in a rear-impact, how likely the gas tank is to rupture in an impact, etc.... in other words, the safety-issues that auto manufacturers sometimes get sued for.

That said, though, I'm certainly not discounting the effect of the lawyers. My brother, for instance, just got a new Kia Sportage, and, out of probably 400+ pages in the manual, from a quick brush-through that I gave it, probably 75% of the manual is classic lawyer-speak, telling people to do or not do things in a certain way.

LoveCT

Pardon me if I seem to be hijacking the thread. But since the talk has started about the engine oil consumption and improper breaking in, I find that I will have no better time to ask this question. The answer is important to me as I recently acquired a new car a week ago.

If proper breaking in is important to maintain the longevity of the engine performance, and a good breaking in involves proper seating of seals and other friction parts in the engine, why should we not do an oil change at 1000 miles?

I have been told by many engines are already broken in and those oil changes are unnecessary early on. That may as well be true, but then why would we need the proper early engine breaking in procedures and not complete it by doing an oil change to remove the offending shavings early on? Is the environment the only consideration for these manufacturers to not suggest an oil change at 1,000 miles?

Thanks. Like everyone here, I am trying to elongate my engine maintenance life, and the cost of an oil change isn't much of a bother for me. i just don't want to be a fool in doing it.

mmarshall

I used to do exactly that myself....change the oil on most of my new cars at 1000 miles, especially if the drain plug and oil filter placement were designed so that it was fairly easy to do it yourself, and not even have to take it to the shop. Back then, production tolerances weren't as good as today, so that a new engine was tight, had friction, and small metal articles would build up in the oil and filter from the friction of the break-in. That metal-contaminated oil should have been changed at the end of a break-in.

Today, minute production tolerances have lessened the need for (but not totally eliminated) the formal break-in. The oil still gets some particles in it, though not as much, so that, in most cases, it's safe to go a few thousand miles until the first change. But I still wouldn't let it go too far, computer-monitors or not.

One thing that is causing oil use problems in today's cars is that the oil-use monitors, because today's oils are so good and long-lasting, tend to stretch out change-intervals so long that engines are using a quart or two during those long intervals between the computer-required changes. An engine, on average, may use a quart in 3000 or 4000 miles. But, with the computer stretching out the oil changes to longer intervals than that, it becomes important to pull up that dipstick once and while and keep an eye on the oil-level, as some computers don't do that for you....they monitor the condition of the oil that is left in the crankcase.

(That's one reason why, when I do an auto review, I routinely comment on how easy or difficult underhood components, including dipsticks and filler-caps, are for the average DYI to access)

LoveCT

Thanks. So, I guess I should change my first oil at 1,000-2,000 mile level. Agree on the better tolerances now than before.

I haven't read enough information on what these on-board computers monitor regarding oil quality and quantity, or what level of analyses do they do. And I am reluctant to blindly follow it without knowing it properly.

Plus today's many passenger vehicles seem to be also getting rid of engine temperature gauges and replacing with a light, which when lit basically says the engine is now damaged from heat. One of the reasons all my engines have lived long is that I have taken immediate corrective measures when I found the engine heating up close to the upper end of its average operating range. I don't have an option now with no temperature gauges.

Now if the engine's gremlins were all solved, I could understand the move. But apparently, as CR suggests, the engine related problems are far from over.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

i know of no manufacturer or auto mechanic that says do the first oil change early (e.g., 1k).

modern car engines are typically THRASHED (high rpm for long time and cycling up/down) at the factory before being shipped. they're probably abused worse than you ever will.

if you're the kind of person who takes Echinacea when you think you might get a cold, go ahead and change the oil early, but i think it's a waste of time and money.

mmarshall

It's certainly not as much of a factor as it was decades ago, but IMO early oil changes certainly can't hurt.

I'm not an engineer myself, but what I can tell you is that they record the date of the oil change, number of cold/hot starts, length of time taken for engine warm-up, total length of the trip, how long the engine stays at full-operating temperature, general cruising/accelerating/braking characteristics of the driving style, and other factors that affect the oil condition, and then translate it into estimated remaining time in oil life before the next change is needed....or simply flash a service light when a change is needed.

Yes, that is one of my automotive pet peeves, too. I totally agree with you, 100%........needle-gauges are FAR better than idiot-lights for engine temperature. But idiot lights are sometimes used because they are cheaper.

i don't always agree with CR, but it is a well-respected publication, and most of what they say can be taken seriously (I respect them even if I myself don't agree)

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

just wondering, how long have you typically kept a vehicle? and when was the last time your engine heated up to upper end of its operating range? this has never happened with any car i've owned. oh and my '15 jeep has temp needle.

all? nothing is perfect. but engine reliability today is leaps and bounds better than in the past. most vehicles have no engine problems in the first 100k (except maybe oil use as this thread discusses ).

heck of an observation by CR. they're masters of the obvious.

LoveCT

I have three cars in my garage currently. My beloved is a 15 year old american that not only refuses to die, but also has nothing that doesn't work like the day it was born. I have religiously put Mobil1 on this car since day 1 and to this day, it doesn't consume oil more than a 200 ml in a 5000 mile oil change service. I did not say my car heated up to its upper end of its operating range. I said "heating up close to the upper end of its average operating range". Small difference. Yes I did a break in oil change on that car. My 2013 Lexus CT doesn't have a temperature needle. And no I didn't do a break in oil change on that car. My latest 2015 Sienna Limited, thank God, has a temp. needle.

Agreed, problems don't occur in engines en masse like they used to couple decades ago. But you'll agree that there still are those problematic engines out there. And guess what, most of them are the ones that have been boosted, moved to lighter grade oil, increased change interval in order to meet the emission and environment and so called maintenance savings. My speculation only at this point. Again, I am happy that the Sienna runs naturally aspirated V6 with time tested engine. We'll see how the new Lexus Turbos work in the long term.

If that is the case, why do Toyota and Lexus give so much detailed instructions on how to handle the engine during the break-in period? And if so, why not complete the proper seating of friction parts by getting rid of the "bad" oil. Look, I am not trying to be sarcastic, but just asking an opinion, given the break-in period instructions.

Toys4RJill

So I decided to look up the owners manual of our LX450 in regards to break in as well as engine oil consumption.

Here is what is listed.

BREAK IN:
Drive Gently and avoid high speeds
Your vehicle does not need an elaborate break in. But following a few simple steps for the first 1000 miles can add to the future economy and long life of your vehicle.

1. Do not drive over 55mph

2. Run the engine at moderate speeds between 2000 and 4000 rpm

3. Avoid full throttle starts

4. Try to avoid hard stops for 300km

5. Do not drive at a single speed for long times

6. Do not tow for 500 miles.

FACTS ABOUT ENGINE OIL

It is normal that an engine should consume oil during normal operation. The cause of oil consumption in a normal engine is as follows.

1 (short answer). Engine oil burns becuase of high temps on the cylinder walls.

2. Some oil is sucked into the combustion chamber with the intake air and is burned alongside the fuel.

3. More oil is burned at high speed driving


4. More oil is burned during frequent acceleration and deceleration.

5.(I knew CR was full of it) A NEW ENGINE CONSUMES MORE OIL since its pistons and walls are not yet conditioned.


6. The amount of oil burned depends on the viscosity of the oil

Toyota recommends checking the oil every time you refuel your vehicle.

Joeb427

iTrader: (1)

What percentage of new vehicle owners follow that break in period?
10%-20%?

I avoid full throttle starts and vary highway speeds which changes RPM.
Always went over 55MPH.Even up to 80MPH.
I've owned many new vehicles and never had any issues.

Avoid panic stops if possible for better brake bedding.

These engines are probably redlined for testing.

LoveCT

And my 2015 Toyota Sienna V6 3.5 with 0W20 oil suggested almost the same thing:

A certain amount of engine oil will be consumed while driving. In the following situations, oil consumption may increase, and engine oil may need to be refilled in between oil maintenance intervals.
●When the engine is new, for example directly after purchasing the vehicle or after replacing the engine
●If low quality oil or oil of an inappropriate viscosity is used
●When driving at high engine speeds or with a heavy load, when towing, or when driving while accelerating or decelerating frequently
●When leaving the engine idling for a long time, or when driving frequently through heavy traffic

On breaking in:
To extend the life of the vehicle, observing the following precautions is recommended:
●For the first 200 miles (300 km):
Avoid sudden stops.
●For the first 500 miles (800 km):
Do not tow a trailer.
●For the first 1000 miles (1600 km):
• Do not drive at extremely high speeds.
• Avoid sudden acceleration.
• Do not drive continuously in low gears.
• Do not drive at a constant speed for extended periods.

Toys4RJill

I think CR needs to put out a media advisory or article that CR might be full of it

2014 Corolla manual states:
A certain amount of enigne oil will be consumed while driving AND ENGINE OIL MAY NEED TO BE REFILLED between maintenance intervals.

High speeds consume more oil
Long idling
when engine is new

Toys4RJill

It's funny what happens when we the people check the facts.

I still stand by my comments that CR is full of it and where trying to grab headlines with their false claims.