Consumer Reports finds some newer cars burn too much oil
07-03-15, 11:25 PM
#91
Lexus Fanatic
Also, its takes 100 miles for the chemicals on the tires to wear off and the ceramic brake pads need working in as well.
07-04-15, 05:33 AM
#92
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I am liking this debate on engine oil consumption. I think something got lost in translation between what Toyota owner's manual say and what is acceptable.
Agreed that on multiple occasions, the Toyota/Lexus owner's manual will say something to the point of a new engine consumes more oil since its pistons and walls are not yet conditioned. However, what is a new engine?
I think the 2015 Toyota Sienna (3.5 l, 0W-20) manual somehow makes it clear by stating that "A certain amount of engine oil will be consumed while driving. In the following situations, oil consumption may increase, and engine oil may need to be refilled in between oil maintenance intervals.
* When the engine is new, for example directly after purchasing the vehicle or after replacing the engine" (or in other words, a brand new engine will likely consume more oil at the time of breaking in)
The other times an engine will consume more oil, according to the Sienna manual is:
* If low quality oil or oil of an inappropriate viscosity is used (duh)
* When driving at high engine speeds or with a heavy load, when towing, or when driving while accelerating or decelerating frequently (excessive conditions, beyond normal driving)
* When leaving the engine idling for a long time, or when driving frequently through heavy traffic (engine running longer than the average engine run between 5000 miles interval oil changes)
I agree with most of you that beyond the break-in period, there should be no reason a new engine will consume more oil. Heck, even all established engine oil manufacturers have separate newer engine and high mileage engine formula, The higher mileage engine formula specifically has "Seal Conditioner" intended to help prevent leaks. Look up at the Mobil1 High mileage engine oil website. http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lub...leage_Oil.aspx
I was unable to find any mobil1 web page that said the same thing about newer vehicle formula. Why? Simple. The newer engines (typically lower than 75,000 miles) are not supposed to lose significant oil.
But here's the kicker. I looked up the CT200h manual (1.8 L 4-cylinder (2ZR-FXE), 0W-20). Here Toyota actually quantifies what it considers excessive oil consumption. Taken from page 519
* The amount of engine oil consumed depends on the oil viscosity, the quality of the oil and the way the vehicle is driven.
* More oil is consumed under driving conditions such as high speeds and frequent acceleration and deceleration.
* A new engine consumes more oil.
* When judging the amount of oil consumption, keep in mind that the oil may have become diluted, making it difficult to judge the true level accurately.
* Oil consumption: Max. 1.1 qt./600 miles (1.0 L/1000 km, 0.9 lmp.qt./600 miles)
* If your vehicle consumes more than 1.1 qt. (1.0 L, 0.9 lmp.qt.) every 600 miles(1000 km), contact your Lexus dealer.
Point to be considered: There is no mention of engine mileage when the excessive consumption number is stated. So it is safe to say, that at any point of engine life, if the consumption gets close to or over 1.1 qt per 600 miles, you will need an engine overhaul.
This number better be at higher mileage, as there is no way I feel, I will have close to this high consumption early on and get better with age.
Anecdotal: my three year old CT200h engine is not burning a single drop of oil. Touch wood. Yes, I checked all my three cars' engine fluid levels last night.
Agreed that on multiple occasions, the Toyota/Lexus owner's manual will say something to the point of a new engine consumes more oil since its pistons and walls are not yet conditioned. However, what is a new engine?
I think the 2015 Toyota Sienna (3.5 l, 0W-20) manual somehow makes it clear by stating that "A certain amount of engine oil will be consumed while driving. In the following situations, oil consumption may increase, and engine oil may need to be refilled in between oil maintenance intervals.
* When the engine is new, for example directly after purchasing the vehicle or after replacing the engine" (or in other words, a brand new engine will likely consume more oil at the time of breaking in)
The other times an engine will consume more oil, according to the Sienna manual is:
* If low quality oil or oil of an inappropriate viscosity is used (duh)
* When driving at high engine speeds or with a heavy load, when towing, or when driving while accelerating or decelerating frequently (excessive conditions, beyond normal driving)
* When leaving the engine idling for a long time, or when driving frequently through heavy traffic (engine running longer than the average engine run between 5000 miles interval oil changes)
I agree with most of you that beyond the break-in period, there should be no reason a new engine will consume more oil. Heck, even all established engine oil manufacturers have separate newer engine and high mileage engine formula, The higher mileage engine formula specifically has "Seal Conditioner" intended to help prevent leaks. Look up at the Mobil1 High mileage engine oil website. http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lub...leage_Oil.aspx
I was unable to find any mobil1 web page that said the same thing about newer vehicle formula. Why? Simple. The newer engines (typically lower than 75,000 miles) are not supposed to lose significant oil.
But here's the kicker. I looked up the CT200h manual (1.8 L 4-cylinder (2ZR-FXE), 0W-20). Here Toyota actually quantifies what it considers excessive oil consumption. Taken from page 519
* The amount of engine oil consumed depends on the oil viscosity, the quality of the oil and the way the vehicle is driven.
* More oil is consumed under driving conditions such as high speeds and frequent acceleration and deceleration.
* A new engine consumes more oil.
* When judging the amount of oil consumption, keep in mind that the oil may have become diluted, making it difficult to judge the true level accurately.
* Oil consumption: Max. 1.1 qt./600 miles (1.0 L/1000 km, 0.9 lmp.qt./600 miles)
* If your vehicle consumes more than 1.1 qt. (1.0 L, 0.9 lmp.qt.) every 600 miles(1000 km), contact your Lexus dealer.
Point to be considered: There is no mention of engine mileage when the excessive consumption number is stated. So it is safe to say, that at any point of engine life, if the consumption gets close to or over 1.1 qt per 600 miles, you will need an engine overhaul.
This number better be at higher mileage, as there is no way I feel, I will have close to this high consumption early on and get better with age.
Anecdotal: my three year old CT200h engine is not burning a single drop of oil. Touch wood. Yes, I checked all my three cars' engine fluid levels last night.
Last edited by LoveCT; 07-04-15 at 06:38 AM.
07-04-15, 06:42 AM
#93
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
Hard to believe any mfr would state you should check oil every time you fuel up - who the heck does that?
07-04-15, 06:46 AM
#94
Lexus Champion
07-04-15, 06:52 AM
#95
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
And that's exactly why the manuals are more about the lawyers than the engineers.
07-04-15, 07:26 AM
#96
Lexus Fanatic
I am liking this debate on engine oil consumption. I think something got lost in translation between what Toyota owner's manual say and what is acceptable.
Agreed that on multiple occasions, the Toyota/Lexus owner's manual will say something to the point of a new engine consumes more oil since its pistons and walls are not yet conditioned. However, what is a new engine?
I think the 2015 Toyota Sienna (3.5 l, 0W-20) manual somehow makes it clear by stating that "A certain amount of engine oil will be consumed while driving. In the following situations, oil consumption may increase, and engine oil may need to be refilled in between oil maintenance intervals.
* When the engine is new, for example directly after purchasing the vehicle or after replacing the engine" (or in other words, a brand new engine will likely consume more oil at the time of breaking in)
The other times an engine will consume more oil, according to the Sienna manual is:
* If low quality oil or oil of an inappropriate viscosity is used (duh)
* When driving at high engine speeds or with a heavy load, when towing, or when driving while accelerating or decelerating frequently (excessive conditions, beyond normal driving)
* When leaving the engine idling for a long time, or when driving frequently through heavy traffic (engine running longer than the average engine run between 5000 miles interval oil changes)
I agree with most of you that beyond the break-in period, there should be no reason a new engine will consume more oil. Heck, even all established engine oil manufacturers have separate newer engine and high mileage engine formula, The higher mileage engine formula specifically has "Seal Conditioner" intended to help prevent leaks. Look up at the Mobil1 High mileage engine oil website. http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lub...leage_Oil.aspx
I was unable to find any mobil1 web page that said the same thing about newer vehicle formula. Why? Simple. The newer engines (typically lower than 75,000 miles) are not supposed to lose significant oil.
But here's the kicker. I looked up the CT200h manual (1.8 L 4-cylinder (2ZR-FXE), 0W-20). Here Toyota actually quantifies what it considers excessive oil consumption. Taken from page 519
* The amount of engine oil consumed depends on the oil viscosity, the quality of the oil and the way the vehicle is driven.
* More oil is consumed under driving conditions such as high speeds and frequent acceleration and deceleration.
* A new engine consumes more oil.
* When judging the amount of oil consumption, keep in mind that the oil may have become diluted, making it difficult to judge the true level accurately.
* Oil consumption: Max. 1.1 qt./600 miles (1.0 L/1000 km, 0.9 lmp.qt./600 miles)
* If your vehicle consumes more than 1.1 qt. (1.0 L, 0.9 lmp.qt.) every 600 miles(1000 km), contact your Lexus dealer.
Point to be considered: There is no mention of engine mileage when the excessive consumption number is stated. So it is safe to say, that at any point of engine life, if the consumption gets close to or over 1.1 qt per 600 miles, you will need an engine overhaul.
This number better be at higher mileage, as there is no way I feel, I will have close to this high consumption early on and get better with age.
Anecdotal: my three year old CT200h engine is not burning a single drop of oil. Touch wood. Yes, I checked all my three cars' engine fluid levels last night.
Agreed that on multiple occasions, the Toyota/Lexus owner's manual will say something to the point of a new engine consumes more oil since its pistons and walls are not yet conditioned. However, what is a new engine?
I think the 2015 Toyota Sienna (3.5 l, 0W-20) manual somehow makes it clear by stating that "A certain amount of engine oil will be consumed while driving. In the following situations, oil consumption may increase, and engine oil may need to be refilled in between oil maintenance intervals.
* When the engine is new, for example directly after purchasing the vehicle or after replacing the engine" (or in other words, a brand new engine will likely consume more oil at the time of breaking in)
The other times an engine will consume more oil, according to the Sienna manual is:
* If low quality oil or oil of an inappropriate viscosity is used (duh)
* When driving at high engine speeds or with a heavy load, when towing, or when driving while accelerating or decelerating frequently (excessive conditions, beyond normal driving)
* When leaving the engine idling for a long time, or when driving frequently through heavy traffic (engine running longer than the average engine run between 5000 miles interval oil changes)
I agree with most of you that beyond the break-in period, there should be no reason a new engine will consume more oil. Heck, even all established engine oil manufacturers have separate newer engine and high mileage engine formula, The higher mileage engine formula specifically has "Seal Conditioner" intended to help prevent leaks. Look up at the Mobil1 High mileage engine oil website. http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lub...leage_Oil.aspx
I was unable to find any mobil1 web page that said the same thing about newer vehicle formula. Why? Simple. The newer engines (typically lower than 75,000 miles) are not supposed to lose significant oil.
But here's the kicker. I looked up the CT200h manual (1.8 L 4-cylinder (2ZR-FXE), 0W-20). Here Toyota actually quantifies what it considers excessive oil consumption. Taken from page 519
* The amount of engine oil consumed depends on the oil viscosity, the quality of the oil and the way the vehicle is driven.
* More oil is consumed under driving conditions such as high speeds and frequent acceleration and deceleration.
* A new engine consumes more oil.
* When judging the amount of oil consumption, keep in mind that the oil may have become diluted, making it difficult to judge the true level accurately.
* Oil consumption: Max. 1.1 qt./600 miles (1.0 L/1000 km, 0.9 lmp.qt./600 miles)
* If your vehicle consumes more than 1.1 qt. (1.0 L, 0.9 lmp.qt.) every 600 miles(1000 km), contact your Lexus dealer.
Point to be considered: There is no mention of engine mileage when the excessive consumption number is stated. So it is safe to say, that at any point of engine life, if the consumption gets close to or over 1.1 qt per 600 miles, you will need an engine overhaul.
This number better be at higher mileage, as there is no way I feel, I will have close to this high consumption early on and get better with age.
Anecdotal: my three year old CT200h engine is not burning a single drop of oil. Touch wood. Yes, I checked all my three cars' engine fluid levels last night.
From reading between all the lines in the manuals, I get that am engine will burn some oil depending on how severe you drove the car. Almost all the manuals I looked at state that high speed driving will burn oil. I am sure driving 120 MPH on the autobahns will cause the engine to burn oil.
The issue I have with all this is that CR is trying to draw attention to themselves by providing false info. I have always said they are a crap magazine and I will continue to do so.
07-04-15, 07:27 AM
#97
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07-04-15, 08:20 AM
#98
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How do you know a engine is not supposed to burn any oil? Are you an engineer that can confirm that?
From reading between all the lines in the manuals, I get that am engine will burn some oil depending on how severe you drove the car. Almost all the manuals I looked at state that high speed driving will burn oil. I am sure driving 120 MPH on the autobahns will cause the engine to burn oil.
The issue I have with all this is that CR is trying to draw attention to themselves by providing false info. I have always said they are a crap magazine and I will continue to do so.
From reading between all the lines in the manuals, I get that am engine will burn some oil depending on how severe you drove the car. Almost all the manuals I looked at state that high speed driving will burn oil. I am sure driving 120 MPH on the autobahns will cause the engine to burn oil.
The issue I have with all this is that CR is trying to draw attention to themselves by providing false info. I have always said they are a crap magazine and I will continue to do so.
Where did I say that? You're accusing me of something I didn't say. All I am saying now is, newer engine shouldn't burn excessive oil beyond break-in period. The Sienna manual does say what is considered a new engine. And I have mentioned that in the text. Beyond break-in no excessive oil consumption is normal. There should no misunderstanding between losing some small fraction of oil in a lower mileage engine. But between losing milliliters and losing a quart every 600 miles thar is a considerable difference.
And CR is absolutely on the ball pointing out this problem or some other new model cars Newer engines should not lose excessive oil. 1 qt at 600 mile is excessive. Oil manufacturers also agree and make two different types of oil. The higher mileage oil is geared towards reducing oil leaks. The lower mileage oil is not. Why?
Regarding your beliefs Jill, you're absolutely entitled to them. A section of crowd feel vaccines are bad for children and they are entitled to their feelings as well. I am not a subscriber of CR and have nothing to do with them. I don't care what they have claimed elsewhere. CR or not, who ever says burning excessive oil in newer engine is not right has a supporter in me.
Last edited by LoveCT; 07-04-15 at 08:30 AM.
07-04-15, 08:26 AM
#99
Lexus Fanatic
Where did I say that? You're accusing me of something I didn't say. All I am saying now is, newer engine shouldn't burn excessive oil beyond break-in period. The Sienna manual does say what is considered a new engine. And I have mentioned that in the text. Beyond break-in no excessive oil consumption is normal. There should no misunderstanding between losing some small fraction of oil in a lower mileage engine. But between losing milliliters and losing a quart every 600 miles thar is a considerable difference.
And CR is absolutely on the ball pointing out this problem or some other new model cars Newer engines should not lose excessive oil. 1 qt at 600 mile is excessive. Oil manufacturers also agree and make two different types of oil. The higher mileage oil is geared towards reducing oil leaks. The lower mileage oil is not. Why?
And CR is absolutely on the ball pointing out this problem or some other new model cars Newer engines should not lose excessive oil. 1 qt at 600 mile is excessive. Oil manufacturers also agree and make two different types of oil. The higher mileage oil is geared towards reducing oil leaks. The lower mileage oil is not. Why?
I have always been told that all engines do burn some oil.
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 07-04-15 at 08:33 AM.
07-04-15, 08:32 AM
#100
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07-04-15, 08:34 AM
#101
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07-04-15, 08:38 AM
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I am in agreement with Toyota and Lexus. 600 miles for 1 qt is excessive per Toyota. I am in agreement with CR. Show me where MB says 1 qt per 600 mile is normal on a newer engine.
07-04-15, 08:42 AM
#103
Lexus Fanatic
Look inside the manual of an E-class Mercedes and it will state that. Actually it's .9 of a quart per 600 miles.
07-04-15, 08:47 AM
#105
Lexus Fanatic