coolsaber

For your particular vehicle that works I guess. But from my experience, on a more bread and butter vehicle that keeps the #s high for Lexus offering a 2% discount whereas others were giving me a 10-12% discount is a huge strike.

Quick question though, this $5k pricing, were you offered an initial deal, and then negotiated or you told them what you wanted and they agreed. In my case, I saw the lack of effort on their part, and just moved on and chalked it to their "no haggle policy in play"

yakim

Sir, and that kind of summarizes and compromises the validity of the rest of your arguments. Comparing gigantic discounts on an obsolete LS/GS models versus 2016 LX that sells on average at $2k off the sticker (according to Truecar sales data) nationwide, proves exactly the point I am making.

SW17LS

Yeah those deals I posted above all include incentives.

The GS was a 2013 model in 2013, the first year of the new model, it was not an obsolete car at all. Deals on the GS got way better after I got my GS. The LS I will give you was ripe for a great deal and the deal I got reflected that.

I've always been able to negotiate several thousand dollars more off of a Lexus than TrueCar showed. TrueCar has never impressed me as a valuable source of sales data for luxury cars. Mainstream cars are another story, I have found their pricing and service valuable when I bought my Jeeps and my Kia Sedona, and my cousin is in the process of buying a 2016 Civic I'm helping him with and TrueCar's pricing is excellent. Lexus, not at all.

The LX is not a brisk seller at all either, if I were buying one I would want more than $5k off.

Anyways, find me a business analyst that does not agree that price fixing amongst competitors increases cost for consumers and reduces consumers ability to negotiate fair prices on products. Thats essentially what this is...price fixing. Thats why price fixing is illegal.

This is not ACTUALLY price fixing because they don't consider franchise dealers of the same brand competitors, but in reality they are competitors. There are 5 dealers here within 25 miles...if all of them suddenly had the same pricing and that essentially removed competition between them for my business, I would be naive to think that wouldn't cause the price I would pay for their product to increase.

Toys4RJill

I would bet the invoice price on an LX is closer to 8-10k off the MSRP.

SW17LS

The spread is $7,100 (invoice is $81,771, MSRP is $88,880). Lexus has a 2% holdback of the base MSRP, which is $1,778. So there is ~ $8,900 of profit in an LX if there are no incentives. Like I said, I would want significantly more than $5k off.Bear in mind theres profit in the financing too.

coolsaber

I though Invoice listed was about 5% based on sticker?

SW17LS

Not automatically. You have to look it up model vs model.

yakim

LX has not intentions to be a brisk seller at all and I like its exclusivity. Inventory @ local dealerships is non-existent and many are pre-sold before they arrive. Invoice is about $7k off the sticker. Holdback is verboten on high demand models, and I don't want any of it just because I understand that a business must make reasonable profit. I don't have a problem to have a dealer make $3-5k profit on a $97k car. Just as I don't mind a suit maker making a 300% profit on a suit, if I see the value. Financing is not an issue.

If you wait a year, you will probably get your $10-12k off, or may be not. The thing is I wanted to enjoy it right now and I am

Now, if one wants a deal on an ES or LS, I fully expect a no-haggle dealer be within a reasonable figure to what other dealers would do. If they are not, then they don't know the market and will lose business, and it serves them right.


If Lexus dealers everywhere adopt an unreasonable no-haggle policy, there are other brands out there to consider. That's all there is to it, no need to overcomplicate.

SW17LS

You're content to pay a certain amount. For you the hassle is not worth the savings. For those of us for whom it is worth the hassle it's not going to be good for us. Ultimately, you too will pay more.

I don't want to buy another brand. I want to buy a Lexus. Hence why I'm not happy about this. Im glad you're happy, lots of is won't be.

coolsaber

I hate to break it ya, but if you had to let the dealership know your research from non-lexus plus dealers then that means you essentially used the Non-lexus plus data against the lexus plus dealer. If Lexus dealership across the nation adopt this policy, then where can you get the so called non-lexus plus data to use against the lexus plus dealership?

Its not as easy as embracing this new change. As SWL said, its simply convenient for those selling rather then those buying since you if you dont have any control over pricing then your are essentially forced to pay what they think is right regardless of incentives or anything else.

yakim

...Right, except that upfront price is only one part of the equation and it all comes down to value. It is up to the dealer and the brand to build that perceived value for the customer, no matter what the price or discount. Fixation on upfront price or monthly payment is never healthy and leads to bad decisions.

No one is forced to do anything, and ultimately, its up to the customer to decide if the value is there, or not. For me, a part of the value is the fact I like the product and the process, that its not discounted $10k, that the so-called discount bargain bin shoppers keep themselves away and that I could buy it (or not) in a relaxed environment.

No matter what the upfront price was, If I didn't see the value, I'd be buying something else. Or not.

SW17LS

Exactly. These discounts are okay now, but if all dealers adopt this practice the discounts will evaporate real quick. That's just the nature of business, it's competition, supply and demand. That's why price fixing is illegal. We don't have to guess on this, we know it will happen because it's happened many times before in the world, again that is what led to price fixing, collusion and antitrust being made illegal.

Like I said, it works for you and that's fine. Doesn't work for me and that's also fine. If this stays just a few dealers that's fine, I will go to a dealer where I can negotiate the sort of deal where I know I'm paying as low a price as is possible in my region.

Lexus needs my business as much as they need your business. My viewpoint is just as valid as yours, so stop trying to call me a "bargain basement buyer". I simply don't pay more for things like this than I need to. It's business. If you're happy to pay more for a certain "experience" good for you. That "experience" is meaningless to me. There's no "value" the dealer can give me outside the price. I try and stay away from the dealer as much as I can after I buy the car, their service is overpriced and of questionable quality, I've had cars mistreated at dealers, I never let them wash my cars, so what can they do for me other than sell me a car at a good price?

I'm perfectly relaxed when I buy a car. I simply get quotes from all my local dealers from my desk, compare those prices to data sources that give me ideas of transaction prices so I know I'm paying at or near the bottom price, and buy the car from the dealer with the bottom price. Or if two dealers are very close, the salesman I like the best. I haven't spent more than 1.5 hours in a dealership buying a car in years.

It's not a difficult or stressful process at all. It's people who go into the dealer and sit there for 3 hours negotiating with no data that create stress for themselves, and that's just not necessary nowadays.

coolsaber

Practice what you preach. If you like the relaxed environment without any hassle because you see value in a vehicle or particular sales experience, then I don`t know why one would need to research anything or even consider driving 185 miles anywhere? See from what I gather, only bargain bin shoppers should be doing any homework.

Anyways, if your are one of those who make purchasing decisions based off true value of a product (even the ones who openly claim not to be), rather then some artificial value that someone has created its going to be terrible as the market will be working against buyers rather then for buyers without any remarkable benefit for consumers.

SW17LS

Right, you can walk into any dealer and pay MSRP and have a great experience.

coolsaber

Yup. Why force everyone to pay the same. Options are good, forced conformity is bad for everyone involved.