Interesting...Toyota's Lexus Testing Haggle-Free Sales at 12 U.S. Stores
05-22-16, 09:17 PM
#196
Lead Lap
No, rebates are not needed unless the manufacturer overpriced their cars and is trying to manipulate the useful idiots by offfering them huge discounts and lure them into believing its a win/win situation. The key is to determine the value and go from there.
Fortunately, there's enough dumb people to take the bait and play along and then brag about the money they saved and the great deals they got.
There is a sucker born every minute
Fortunately, there's enough dumb people to take the bait and play along and then brag about the money they saved and the great deals they got.
There is a sucker born every minute
What I see happening is the following:
If a Buyer A and B go to purchase a new GS today (for the purposes of argument)
A is on the east coast
B is on the west coast
Buyer A gets a 15% discount
Buyer B gets a 25% discount
They both feel they got a good deal. However only Buyer A feels bad he overpaid by 10% after posting on the forum
So is the Lexus Plus way a way to help normalize discount levels and avoid Buyer A frustrations?
So Lexus Plus discounts gives both a flat 10% discount.
No unfairness and Buyer A cant be happy. However both buyers loose out on their additional discount levels which that had gotten before so everyone looses except the dealer and the mfg
05-23-16, 03:57 AM
#197
Forum Administrator
iTrader: (2)
No need to fret, be upset or pout. Based on your honest comments, you are a perfect Toyota shopper. Toyota is huge brand and offers great value and spectacular discounts. Need a referral for a bird-dogg fee?
Peace and no hard feelings, sir! There's enough space for all of us ...Regards and best wishes ... from War, West Virginia
Tat Tvam Asi
Peace and no hard feelings, sir! There's enough space for all of us ...Regards and best wishes ... from War, West Virginia
Tat Tvam Asi
05-23-16, 05:36 AM
#198
How does getting $10k off by haggling ensure you are getting good value. Once you start haggling, and prices start coming down, you are left with no means of finding out how much you could have actually haggled down? Maybe it was $15k and you left $5k on the table unbeknownst to you, and you walk off happy ONLY because you know you got a better discount than the other guy. But in no shape or form does that mean you got a better value. Value is to be considered against your own set of constraints, and your time value , and when you get to acquire that what you are paying for. If I pay $10k only for an LX but it will be delivered 25 years hence, does it still imply value?
05-23-16, 05:41 AM
#199
Lexus Fanatic
Nobody really knows if you are getting a fair deal. Over the years, I have discovered that some people love getting the lowest price, some don't care to haggle and don't waste their time and efforts. Some just want disclosure and will pay a certain price.
05-23-16, 05:48 AM
#200
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by chikoo
How does getting $10k off by haggling ensure you are getting good value. Once you start haggling, and prices start coming down, you are left with no means of finding out how much you could have actually haggled down? Maybe it was $15k and you left $5k on the table unbeknownst to you, and you walk off happy ONLY because you know you got a better discount than the other guy. But in no shape or form does that mean you got a better value. Value is to be considered against your own set of constraints, and your time value , and when you get to acquire that what you are paying for. If I pay $10k only for an LX but it will be delivered 25 years hence, does it still imply value?
In a negotiation you know when you've hit the bottom. Their attitude changes, from getting quotes from other dealers who know they're in competition where they start to hit a floor, when the dealership begins to be willing to let the transaction go. All of that information comes together to show you that you've gotten to the bottom.
And it's not about getting to the absolute bottom dollar, it's about knowing that you're pulling the trigger at one of the best deals you're going to get for the car in your marketplace. I don't begrudge them profit as long as I am not overpaying. If the bottom dollar leaves $5k profit, then fine.
My dealer I've bought my last two cars from has a "markdown price", they try and pretend they are no haggle but they aren't. I've found that markdown price is about what you see on TrueCar. I've always been able to do several thousand dollars better. Hence why I don't want Lexus to take away their ability to negotiate with me below that markdown price.
It's business, and I actually enjoy the process being a businessman myself.
05-23-16, 06:17 AM
#201
Amen to that Jill.
05-23-16, 06:36 AM
#202
Lexus Fanatic
And I should add, car salespersons as well as the buyer will take advantage of each other if the chance occurs. Lexus Plus pricing won't work because most people want to "think" they are getting a great deal even if they readily admit that they don't want to haggle or negotiate.
05-23-16, 09:17 AM
#203
Lead Lap
How does getting $10k off by haggling ensure you are getting good value. Once you start haggling, and prices start coming down, you are left with no means of finding out how much you could have actually haggled down? Maybe it was $15k and you left $5k on the table unbeknownst to you, and you walk off happy ONLY because you know you got a better discount than the other guy. But in no shape or form does that mean you got a better value. Value is to be considered against your own set of constraints, and your time value , and when you get to acquire that what you are paying for. If I pay $10k only for an LX but it will be delivered 25 years hence, does it still imply value?
A lot to consider.
05-23-16, 09:33 AM
#204
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
Modern access to information makes it a lot easier to know what the bottom dollar is. For one, we have a huge database of information here. You have sites like TrueCar and Edmunds to give you an idea of what a fair value is. I use those sites as a starting point and push downward from there.
In a negotiation you know when you've hit the bottom. Their attitude changes, from getting quotes from other dealers who know they're in competition where they start to hit a floor, when the dealership begins to be willing to let the transaction go. All of that information comes together to show you that you've gotten to the bottom.
And it's not about getting to the absolute bottom dollar, it's about knowing that you're pulling the trigger at one of the best deals you're going to get for the car in your marketplace. I don't begrudge them profit as long as I am not overpaying. If the bottom dollar leaves $5k profit, then fine.
My dealer I've bought my last two cars from has a "markdown price", they try and pretend they are no haggle but they aren't. I've found that markdown price is about what you see on TrueCar. I've always been able to do several thousand dollars better. Hence why I don't want Lexus to take away their ability to negotiate with me below that markdown price.
It's business, and I actually enjoy the process being a businessman myself.
In a negotiation you know when you've hit the bottom. Their attitude changes, from getting quotes from other dealers who know they're in competition where they start to hit a floor, when the dealership begins to be willing to let the transaction go. All of that information comes together to show you that you've gotten to the bottom.
And it's not about getting to the absolute bottom dollar, it's about knowing that you're pulling the trigger at one of the best deals you're going to get for the car in your marketplace. I don't begrudge them profit as long as I am not overpaying. If the bottom dollar leaves $5k profit, then fine.
My dealer I've bought my last two cars from has a "markdown price", they try and pretend they are no haggle but they aren't. I've found that markdown price is about what you see on TrueCar. I've always been able to do several thousand dollars better. Hence why I don't want Lexus to take away their ability to negotiate with me below that markdown price.
It's business, and I actually enjoy the process being a businessman myself.
I find dental work more appealing than the 'process' and i'm a businessperson too.
05-23-16, 10:28 AM
#205
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by bitkahuna
In the time it takes to do all that i can probaby earn more than you save.
I find dental work more appealing than the 'process' and i'm a businessperson too.
I find dental work more appealing than the 'process' and i'm a businessperson too.
05-23-16, 11:15 AM
#206
Modern access to information makes it a lot easier to know what the bottom dollar is. For one, we have a huge database of information here. You have sites like TrueCar and Edmunds to give you an idea of what a fair value is. I use those sites as a starting point and push downward from there.
In a negotiation you know when you've hit the bottom. Their attitude changes, from getting quotes from other dealers who know they're in competition where they start to hit a floor, when the dealership begins to be willing to let the transaction go. All of that information comes together to show you that you've gotten to the bottom.
And it's not about getting to the absolute bottom dollar, it's about knowing that you're pulling the trigger at one of the best deals you're going to get for the car in your marketplace. I don't begrudge them profit as long as I am not overpaying. If the bottom dollar leaves $5k profit, then fine.
My dealer I've bought my last two cars from has a "markdown price", they try and pretend they are no haggle but they aren't. I've found that markdown price is about what you see on TrueCar. I've always been able to do several thousand dollars better. Hence why I don't want Lexus to take away their ability to negotiate with me below that markdown price.
It's business, and I actually enjoy the process being a businessman myself.
In a negotiation you know when you've hit the bottom. Their attitude changes, from getting quotes from other dealers who know they're in competition where they start to hit a floor, when the dealership begins to be willing to let the transaction go. All of that information comes together to show you that you've gotten to the bottom.
And it's not about getting to the absolute bottom dollar, it's about knowing that you're pulling the trigger at one of the best deals you're going to get for the car in your marketplace. I don't begrudge them profit as long as I am not overpaying. If the bottom dollar leaves $5k profit, then fine.
My dealer I've bought my last two cars from has a "markdown price", they try and pretend they are no haggle but they aren't. I've found that markdown price is about what you see on TrueCar. I've always been able to do several thousand dollars better. Hence why I don't want Lexus to take away their ability to negotiate with me below that markdown price.
It's business, and I actually enjoy the process being a businessman myself.
So if you buy off data based upon a website that in turn gets its data from the sale (including your low margin sale) you will want to haggle and bring them down more when you go buy another one of the same for your significant other in less than 3 months time?
05-23-16, 01:34 PM
#207
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by chikoo
uh-oh
So if you buy off data based upon a website that in turn gets its data from the sale (including your low margin sale) you will want to haggle and bring them down more when you go buy another one of the same for your significant other in less than 3 months time?
So if you buy off data based upon a website that in turn gets its data from the sale (including your low margin sale) you will want to haggle and bring them down more when you go buy another one of the same for your significant other in less than 3 months time?
05-23-16, 02:28 PM
#208
Modern access to information makes it a lot easier to know what the bottom dollar is. For one, we have a huge database of information here. You have sites like TrueCar and Edmunds to give you an idea of what a fair value is. I use those sites as a starting point and push downward from there...
05-23-16, 02:31 PM
#209
Lexus Fanatic
I still don't follow, I'm not sure where the "go back 3 months later and buy another one for my significant other" comes in...
The last few cars I've bought have been very easy, painless experiences. Its clear to the dealers that I'm a consumer who has my data, and I'm clearly going to buy on price so if they want to sell me a car they've got to offer me the best pricing. No "haggling" per se.
The stressful experience was the 2014 Jeep. I had bought that on a group buy from the Jeep forum, and the pricing was excellent and was already all ironed out, just call the guy who is doing the group buy and say I want in. Issue came with the trade, and the lease where the trade got low balled and the MF was marked up on the lease. That took hours of sitting in the dealership and hard working numbers, threatening to walk out, etc. They were hell bent that they were going to make some of the profit back from the group buy on the trade and on the MF for the lease. Other members reported the same sort of thing.
I was able to get the trade figured out, but I had to relent and take a somewhat inflated money factor. The deal on the Jeep through the group buy was so good that even if I paid the retail MF rate somewhere else I'd be paying more monthly because of the higher cap cost of the vehicle.
The last few cars I've bought have been very easy, painless experiences. Its clear to the dealers that I'm a consumer who has my data, and I'm clearly going to buy on price so if they want to sell me a car they've got to offer me the best pricing. No "haggling" per se.
The stressful experience was the 2014 Jeep. I had bought that on a group buy from the Jeep forum, and the pricing was excellent and was already all ironed out, just call the guy who is doing the group buy and say I want in. Issue came with the trade, and the lease where the trade got low balled and the MF was marked up on the lease. That took hours of sitting in the dealership and hard working numbers, threatening to walk out, etc. They were hell bent that they were going to make some of the profit back from the group buy on the trade and on the MF for the lease. Other members reported the same sort of thing.
I was able to get the trade figured out, but I had to relent and take a somewhat inflated money factor. The deal on the Jeep through the group buy was so good that even if I paid the retail MF rate somewhere else I'd be paying more monthly because of the higher cap cost of the vehicle.
Last edited by SW17LS; 05-23-16 at 02:38 PM.
05-23-16, 02:48 PM
#210
you want to buy an GS350.
MSRP is $50,000
Truecar, Edmunds, etc show that it is selling at $44,000 (based upon sale of 2 cars)
You show up to the dealership and haggle it down to $42,000
A month later you want to buy another one for your wife.
Now the Truecar, Edmunds etc will show it is selling for $43,333 based upon the 3rd sale to you.
So now you will haggle for the 4th sale to $41,500?
A spiral death trap.
Or as we call it Lim ->0
MSRP is $50,000
Truecar, Edmunds, etc show that it is selling at $44,000 (based upon sale of 2 cars)
You show up to the dealership and haggle it down to $42,000
A month later you want to buy another one for your wife.
Now the Truecar, Edmunds etc will show it is selling for $43,333 based upon the 3rd sale to you.
So now you will haggle for the 4th sale to $41,500?
A spiral death trap.
Or as we call it Lim ->0