Consumer Reports 'worst cars of 2015'
09-04-15, 08:23 AM
#61
Lexus Fanatic
09-04-15, 08:41 AM
#62
Lexus Champion
Because you read the NX reviews first? Then lined up your review accordingly. This is the biggest problem of all with CR, they wait till most of the big car mag reviews are out, then 6-12 months later they use those opinions to create a review to try and grab headlines.
Last edited by LexBob2; 09-04-15 at 08:45 AM.
09-04-15, 08:54 AM
#63
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Took a longer test drive with NX today and I will probably buy the worst car in the world :
That is pretty cool somehow. But hey, im driving a CT today, which is not even a Lexus. 
That is pretty cool somehow. But hey, im driving a CT today, which is not even a Lexus.
09-04-15, 08:57 AM
#64
Lexus Fanatic
Initial reviews of new models are done using press vehicles. Since CR buys the cars they test in most cases it isn't feasible. If one wants a quick spin review of a new model and learn about new features etc. you can get one one of the other car mags. Or, if you want something more thorough wait a bit and check out CR. No big problem, the best of both worlds.
I also do not see how CR buying their cars is relevant in any way.
09-04-15, 09:25 AM
#65
Lexus Champion
I look at it this way, the RX350 2016 embargo is Sept 8th, all the real reviewers will announce their review and impressions on that day, they all stand by the words of their reviews. Then comes CR six months later and they carefully tailor their review around what has been written. I would have more respect for CR is they reviewed the cars on the day and date of the embargo for all others.
I also do not see how CR buying their cars is relevant in any way.
I also do not see how CR buying their cars is relevant in any way.
Does everyone like/agree with their approach, no. Has it been successful for them for a lot of years yes.
09-04-15, 09:32 AM
#66
Lexus Champion
I look at it this way, the RX350 2016 embargo is Sept 8th, all the real reviewers will announce their review and impressions on that day, they all stand by the words of their reviews. Then comes CR six months later and they carefully tailor their review around what has been written. I would have more respect for CR is they reviewed the cars on the day and date of the embargo for all others.
I also do not see how CR buying their cars is relevant in any way.
I also do not see how CR buying their cars is relevant in any way.
Anyway CR does this because they want a vehicle that has not been specially prepped in any way, shape, or form.
09-04-15, 09:47 AM
#67
Lexus Champion
Where does it say new? 
'Worst cars of 2015' implies all current vehicles that are available to market are subject to this yearly list.
If there was a comparison test of Group A. 200, LR2, NX and Sedona vs Group B. Mirage, Patriot, ForTwo and 500L, an overwhelming majority would choose the former
'Worst cars of 2015' implies all current vehicles that are available to market are subject to this yearly list. If there was a comparison test of Group A. 200, LR2, NX and Sedona vs Group B. Mirage, Patriot, ForTwo and 500L, an overwhelming majority would choose the former
"Worst Cars that are New or Newly Remodeled in 2015" may not fit properly on the page...
09-04-15, 09:51 AM
#68
Lexus Champion
I look at it this way, the RX350 2016 embargo is Sept 8th, all the real reviewers will announce their review and impressions on that day, they all stand by the words of their reviews. Then comes CR six months later and they carefully tailor their review around what has been written. I would have more respect for CR is they reviewed the cars on the day and date of the embargo for all others.
I also do not see how CR buying their cars is relevant in any way.
I also do not see how CR buying their cars is relevant in any way.
When the embargo is lifted, you will get flooded with the initial reviews from all the usual suspects (the auto press). The initial reviews will be impressions of the big dog-and-pony show that the automaker paid for, including hotel, meals and airfare for the members of the auto press to that exotic locale where the introduction is held.
This is why a number of Canadian auto review publications now add the disclaimer at the bottom of their reviews similar to: "Transportation and accomodation for this event was paid for by the automaker". This arose from concerns some years ago because readers saw that the auto reviewers were presenting seemingly biased (in favour of the auto manufacturers) reviews; so the decision was made to add this disclaimer that indeed, these were all-expenses-paid (working) vacations for the auto reviewers.
I gather from what I read here in this thread that CR reviewers are invited to these events also.
If you read enough of these initial reviews, you will start to notice a few things. Reviews coming from different reviewers may be very, very similar, and pictures will seem to all come from the same camera. A short (half-day, one- or two-day) review session is hardly enough time to really get to know the vehicle being tested, and add to tht a whole bunch of manufacturer-supplied press information (including pictures and videos) is enough to overwhelm even the most jaded auto reviewer.
All the reviewers at these sessions know each other, drive together and share notes. A reviewer suffering jetlag and overwhelmed by the amount of propaganda thrown at them will not be in the best frame of mind to perform an honest-to-goodness review.
The REAL (in-depth) reviews come later, some much later, after the traditional auto press have had a chance to borrow and drive the vehicle for a week or two from the manufacturer's press fleet. In the case of CR, they buy the vehicles they want to evaluate and they buy the trim level that they believe the buying public is most likely to buy. The auto press have to wait for whatever the manufacturer puts in the press fleet, which is usually the most expensive, best-dressed model that the manufacturer uses to try to impress the auto press.
The more cynical members of the auto reviewers will comment (and be happy) if they are assigned a high-volume model from the press fleet, because they know full well that the well-dressed models they usually drive may not represent what is most likely to be driven by the buying public.
CR will not worry about that, since they went out and bought their evaluation vehicles at retail and without the dealer knowing that they are buying on behalf of CR. They will be evaluating the model that you and I would most likely drive, paid for honestly rather than provided by the auto manufacturer.
Only the terribly naive will not believe that the traditional auto press are not influenced (biased) in favour of the auto manufacturers.
09-04-15, 09:54 AM
#69
Lexus Champion
I look at it this way, the RX350 2016 embargo is Sept 8th, all the real reviewers will announce their review and impressions on that day, they all stand by the words of their reviews. Then comes CR six months later and they carefully tailor their review around what has been written. I would have more respect for CR is they reviewed the cars on the day and date of the embargo for all others.
I also do not see how CR buying their cars is relevant in any way.
I also do not see how CR buying their cars is relevant in any way.
Look at it this way--on ClubLexus and all other car owner forums, people post threads about complaints about their cars. A lot of those complaints are things you may not notice on your test drive. I just don't get how CR can make a "better" review by attending a carefully controlled press event, as opposed to driving the car for months to really see how it performs in the real world. How does CR tailor their reviews to those that come out immediately in car mags? CR's focus is totally different than those of car mags. CR tests cars that the masses buy much more than car mags do. Car mags don't tell you if it's hard to install a child seat; car mags don't tell you how far or short the headlights project; car mags won't focus on the comfort level of the 3rd row of seats.
You hate CR, and that's fine. But you are completely misguided about how and what they focus their reviews.
Last edited by tex2670; 09-04-15 at 10:21 AM.
09-04-15, 09:56 AM
#70
Lexus Champion
09-04-15, 10:03 AM
#71
You have noted this before.
Look at it this way--on ClubLexus and all other car owner forums, people post threads about complaints about their cars. A lot of those complaints are things you may not notice on your test drive. I just don't get how CR can make a "better" review by attending a carefully controlled press event, as opposed to driving the car for months to really see how it performs in the real world. How does CR tailor their reviews to those that come out immediately in car mags? CR's focus is totally different than those of car mags. CR tests cars that the masses buy much more than car mags do.
You hate CR, and that's fine. But you are completely misguided about how and what they focus their reviews.
Look at it this way--on ClubLexus and all other car owner forums, people post threads about complaints about their cars. A lot of those complaints are things you may not notice on your test drive. I just don't get how CR can make a "better" review by attending a carefully controlled press event, as opposed to driving the car for months to really see how it performs in the real world. How does CR tailor their reviews to those that come out immediately in car mags? CR's focus is totally different than those of car mags. CR tests cars that the masses buy much more than car mags do.
You hate CR, and that's fine. But you are completely misguided about how and what they focus their reviews.
09-04-15, 11:36 AM
#72
Lexus Fanatic
I agree.....and I give her credit when I think it is due (as I have a number of times). But for someone to claim that I base my own reviews on what others have said, and wait to read other publications first, is absurd. I do no such thing....never have.
Last edited by mmarshall; 09-04-15 at 12:15 PM.
09-04-15, 11:37 AM
#73
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Reliability/dependabilty reflect the robustness of the car's engineering design....its mechanical and electrical integrity. A reliable and dependable vehicle means that a consumer can expect the vehicle to operate with zero or a minimum of problems during its expected life span, exclusive of expected wear and tear. A reliable and dependable vehicle will not spring surprises on the driver that may compromise safety and/or create an unexpected financial burden.
Consumer Reports obtains the data by surveying its subscribers to report on defects they have experienced in 17 identified areas over the past 12 months. The more defects that are reported per 100 units of that specific car model, the more unreliable it is. Some areas are given more weight than others, such as engine and transmission, as these are critical to the integrity of the vehicle. As you can see, reliability is quantifiable. Consumer Reports does not measure things that can't be quantified because they are subjective opinions such as the "beauty of the car" or "the interiors feel cheap" or "the ride is jostling".
It's entirely possible to acknowledge that a car is well built, reliable, bullet proof, and yet still not buy it for other reasons. The car may not meet one's needs at the moment.
What do the trouble areas cover?
We have been revising the trouble areas since our 2007 survey to be more comprehensive and more closely reflect problems in newer vehicles and better define areas with high problem rates. The following are some changes:
Starting with the 2010 survey, Engine electrical now includes hybrid battery and related system in addition to other charging and ignition systems.
The trouble spot Transmission is separated into Transmission major (more serious problems such as transmission rebuild or replacement and torque converter) and Transmission minor.
Body Hardware includes power components.
Our Reliability History charts cover problems in any of 17 trouble areas. Here's a look at what's covered in each of those areas:
ENGINE MAJOR: Engine rebuild or replacement, cylinder head, head gasket, turbocharger or supercharger, timing chain or belt.
ENGINE MINOR: Oil leaks, accessory belts and pulleys, engine mounts, engine knock or ping.
ENGINE COOLING: Radiator, cooling fan, water pump, thermostat, antifreeze leaks, overheating.
TRANSMISSION (AND CLUTCH)-MAJOR: Transmission rebuild or replacement, torque converter, clutch replacement.
TRANSMISSION (AND CLUTCH)-MINOR: Gear selector and linkage, transmission computer, transmission sensor or solenoid, clutch adjustment, rough shifting, slipping transmission, leaks.
DRIVE SYSTEM: Driveshaft or axle, CV joint, differential, transfer case, four-wheel-drive/all-wheel-drive components, driveline vibration, electrical failure, traction control, electronic stability control (ESC).
FUEL SYSTEM/EMISSIONS: Check-engine light, sensors (O2 or oxygen sensor), emission-control devices (includes EGR), engine computer, fuel-injection system, fuel cap, fuel gauge/sender, fuel pump, fuel leaks, stalling or hesitation.
ELECTRICAL SYSTEM: Alternator, starter, hybrid battery and related systems, regular battery, battery cables, engine harness, coil, ignition switch, electronic ignition, distributor or rotor failure, spark plugs and wires failure.
CLIMATE SYSTEM: A/C compressor, blower (fan) motor, condenser, evaporator, heater system, automatic climate system, electrical failure, refrigerant leakage.
SUSPENSION/STEERING: Shocks or struts, ball joints, tie rods, wheel bearings, alignment, steering linkage (includes rack and pinion), power steering (pumps and hoses, leaks), wheel balance, springs or torsion bars, bushings, electronic or air suspension.
BRAKES: Antilock system (ABS), parking brake, master cylinder, calipers, rotors, pulsation or vibration, squeaking, brake failure, premature wear.
EXHAUST: Exhaust manifold, muffler, catalytic converter, pipes, leaks.
PAINT/TRIM/RUST: Paint (fading, chalking, peeling or cracking), loose trim or moldings, rust.
BODY INTEGRITY: Squeaks, rattles, wind noises, loose or cracked seals, and/or weather stripping, air and water leaks.
BODY HARDWARE (Power or manual): Windows, locks and latches, doors or sliding doors, tailgate, trunk or hatch, mirrors, seat controls (movement and temperature), seat belts, sunroof, convertible top.
POWER EQUIPMENT AND ACCESSORIES: Cruise control, clock, warning lights, body control module, keyless entry, wiper motor or washer, tire pressure monitor, interior or exterior lights, horn, gauges, 12V power plug, alarm or security system, remote engine start.
AUDIO SYSTEM (excluding aftermarket systems): CD or DVD players, radio, speakers, GPS, communication system (e.g., OnStar), infotainment system with integrated controls (e.g., MyFord Touch, Cadillac CUE, HondaLink), Bluetooth pairing, portable music device interface (e.g., iPod/MP3 player), backup or other camera/sensors
Are all problems considered equally serious?
Problems with the engine-major, cooling system, transmission-major, and driveline are more likely to take a car out of service and to be more expensive to repair than the other problem areas. Consequently, we weigh these areas more heavily in our calculations of Used Car Verdicts and Predicted Reliability. Problems in any area can be an expense and a bother, though, so we report them all in the Reliability History charts.
We have been revising the trouble areas since our 2007 survey to be more comprehensive and more closely reflect problems in newer vehicles and better define areas with high problem rates. The following are some changes:
Starting with the 2010 survey, Engine electrical now includes hybrid battery and related system in addition to other charging and ignition systems.
The trouble spot Transmission is separated into Transmission major (more serious problems such as transmission rebuild or replacement and torque converter) and Transmission minor.
Body Hardware includes power components.
Our Reliability History charts cover problems in any of 17 trouble areas. Here's a look at what's covered in each of those areas:
ENGINE MAJOR: Engine rebuild or replacement, cylinder head, head gasket, turbocharger or supercharger, timing chain or belt.
ENGINE MINOR: Oil leaks, accessory belts and pulleys, engine mounts, engine knock or ping.
ENGINE COOLING: Radiator, cooling fan, water pump, thermostat, antifreeze leaks, overheating.
TRANSMISSION (AND CLUTCH)-MAJOR: Transmission rebuild or replacement, torque converter, clutch replacement.
TRANSMISSION (AND CLUTCH)-MINOR: Gear selector and linkage, transmission computer, transmission sensor or solenoid, clutch adjustment, rough shifting, slipping transmission, leaks.
DRIVE SYSTEM: Driveshaft or axle, CV joint, differential, transfer case, four-wheel-drive/all-wheel-drive components, driveline vibration, electrical failure, traction control, electronic stability control (ESC).
FUEL SYSTEM/EMISSIONS: Check-engine light, sensors (O2 or oxygen sensor), emission-control devices (includes EGR), engine computer, fuel-injection system, fuel cap, fuel gauge/sender, fuel pump, fuel leaks, stalling or hesitation.
ELECTRICAL SYSTEM: Alternator, starter, hybrid battery and related systems, regular battery, battery cables, engine harness, coil, ignition switch, electronic ignition, distributor or rotor failure, spark plugs and wires failure.
CLIMATE SYSTEM: A/C compressor, blower (fan) motor, condenser, evaporator, heater system, automatic climate system, electrical failure, refrigerant leakage.
SUSPENSION/STEERING: Shocks or struts, ball joints, tie rods, wheel bearings, alignment, steering linkage (includes rack and pinion), power steering (pumps and hoses, leaks), wheel balance, springs or torsion bars, bushings, electronic or air suspension.
BRAKES: Antilock system (ABS), parking brake, master cylinder, calipers, rotors, pulsation or vibration, squeaking, brake failure, premature wear.
EXHAUST: Exhaust manifold, muffler, catalytic converter, pipes, leaks.
PAINT/TRIM/RUST: Paint (fading, chalking, peeling or cracking), loose trim or moldings, rust.
BODY INTEGRITY: Squeaks, rattles, wind noises, loose or cracked seals, and/or weather stripping, air and water leaks.
BODY HARDWARE (Power or manual): Windows, locks and latches, doors or sliding doors, tailgate, trunk or hatch, mirrors, seat controls (movement and temperature), seat belts, sunroof, convertible top.
POWER EQUIPMENT AND ACCESSORIES: Cruise control, clock, warning lights, body control module, keyless entry, wiper motor or washer, tire pressure monitor, interior or exterior lights, horn, gauges, 12V power plug, alarm or security system, remote engine start.
AUDIO SYSTEM (excluding aftermarket systems): CD or DVD players, radio, speakers, GPS, communication system (e.g., OnStar), infotainment system with integrated controls (e.g., MyFord Touch, Cadillac CUE, HondaLink), Bluetooth pairing, portable music device interface (e.g., iPod/MP3 player), backup or other camera/sensors
Are all problems considered equally serious?
Problems with the engine-major, cooling system, transmission-major, and driveline are more likely to take a car out of service and to be more expensive to repair than the other problem areas. Consequently, we weigh these areas more heavily in our calculations of Used Car Verdicts and Predicted Reliability. Problems in any area can be an expense and a bother, though, so we report them all in the Reliability History charts.
09-04-15, 01:11 PM
#74
Lexus Champion
Where does it say new? 'Worst cars of 2015' implies all current vehicles that are available to market are subject to this yearly list.
If there was a comparison test of Group A. 200, LR2, NX and Sedona vs Group B. Mirage, Patriot, ForTwo and 500L, an overwhelming majority would choose the former
'Worst cars of 2015' implies all current vehicles that are available to market are subject to this yearly list. If there was a comparison test of Group A. 200, LR2, NX and Sedona vs Group B. Mirage, Patriot, ForTwo and 500L, an overwhelming majority would choose the former
09-04-15, 01:15 PM
#75
Lexus Champion
But to not like them because they don't do prompt short reviews when a car is first introduced makes no sense at all to me.