5gears-IS

iTrader: (5)

Now caught cheating on their gas engines.............
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-vo...-idUSKBN1300V7

http://gas2.org/2016/11/08/volkswagen-audi-caught-cheating-emissions-again/

roadbike56

I'm SHOCKED, Shocked to find out there's emissions cheating going on in Audi's gasoline engine division. What's that? Oh thank you for the rebate check from the Audi diesel settlement.
(Borrowed liberally from the movie Casablanca)

chuckNX

I turn in my 2013 VW Golf TDI next week. 3 1/2 years old with 40K miles. I paid $26900 and I will be getting a check for $25k.

It is a bitter sweet moment as it has been a wonderful car with 42MPG average and a little over 50MPG highway.

I am saddened to see a company go from the top of their game into the toilet within a few short years.

dseag2

Well, they have to make it right, but nothing like selling a 3 1/2 year-old car with 40,000 miles and only losing $1,900!

I don't want them to find anything related to the 2.0t yet because I'm not ready to give up my A4 yet. ;-)

mmarshall

7% depreciation over 3 1/2 years? You made out like a bandit on that one LOL.



VW has not been at the top of the game in the American market for decades......certainly not like in the 60s and 70s, when air-cooled Beetles and conventional Rabbits were sold by the millions. In the last couple of decades, their American market operations turned into little more than an afterthought.

dseag2

Very true, but Audi has vastly improved sales over the past decade and has become a fairly major player.

natnut

The more we find out, the more sociopathic VW and Audi appears:

Now there is documented proof current Audi CEO ordered his engineers to cheat on the Audi Q7 emissions.

mmarshall

Ferdinand Piech ruled his company unmercifully, with an iron hand....just like the late (Hank the Deuce) Henry Ford II, who died in 1987. When GM's Bob Lutz was sitting next to Piech at a special dinner for auto execs, He asked Piech how VW got those nice panel-gaps with his budget. Piech replied that he simply told his engineering staff that he was tired of seeing sloppy fit/finish, that they all had six weeks to start showing better results, and, that if they didn't, they were all out of a job.

dseag2

Not that I'm defending Volkswagen at all, but it seems they are not the only ones who are guilty of emissions fraud. They probably just sell quite a few more diesels.

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...-emissions-rowFour more carmakers join diesel emissions row

Mercedes-Benz, Honda, Mazda and Mitsubishi’s cars are shown to emit significantly more NOx pollution on the road than in regulatory tests

VW scandal: 3.6m European vehicles need major changes

A measuring hose for emissions inspections in diesel engines sticks in the exhaust tube of a Volkswagen Golf 2.0. Photograph: Patrick Pleul/AFP/Getty Images

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@dpcarringtonFriday 9 October 2015 02.00 EDTLast modified on Monday 12 October 2015 13.28 EDT

Mercedes-Benz, Honda, Mazda and Mitsubishi have joined the growing list of manufacturers whose diesel cars are known to emit significantly more pollution on the road than in regulatory tests, according to data obtained by the Guardian.Wide range of cars emit more pollution in realistic driving tests, data shows



Read moreIn more realistic on-road tests, some Honda models emitted six times the regulatory limit of NOx pollution while some unnamed 4x4 models had 20 times the NOx limit coming out of their exhaust pipes.


“The issue is a systemic one” across the industry, said Nick Molden, whose company Emissions Analytics tested the cars. The Guardian revealed last week that diesel cars from Renault, Nissan, Hyundai, Citroen, Fiat, Volvo and Jeep all pumped out significantly more NOx in more realistic driving conditions. NOx pollution is at illegal levels in many parts of the UK and is believed to have caused many thousands of premature deaths and billions of pounds in health costs.


All the diesel cars passed the EU’s official lab-based regulatory test (called NEDC), but the test has failed to cut air pollution as governments intended because carmakers designed vehicles that perform better in the lab than on the road. There is no evidence of illegal activity, such as the “defeat devices” used by Volkswagen.Play Video
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Pinterest Volkswagen’s US president on emissions scandal: I’m sorryThe new data is from Emissions Analytics’ on-the-road testing programme, which is carefully controlled and closely matches the real-world test the European commission wants to introduce. The company tested both Euro 6 models, the newest and strictest standard, and earlier Euro 5 models. Data showed that:

• Mercedes-Benz’s diesel cars produced an average of 0.406g/km of NOx on the road, at least 2.2 times more than the official Euro 5 level and five times higher than the Euro 6 level. A spokesman for Mercedes-Benz said: “Since real-world driving conditions do not generally reflect those in the laboratory, the consumption figures may differ from the standardised figures.”
• Honda’s diesel cars emitted 0.484g/km of NOx on average, between 2.6 and six times the official levels. A spokesman for Honda said: “Honda tests vehicles in accordance with European legislation.”
• Mazda’s diesel cars had average NOx emissions of 0.293g/km in the real world, between 1.6 and 3.6 times the NEDC test levels. One Euro 6 model, the Mazda 6 2.2L 5DR, produced three times the official NOx emissions. A spokesman for Mazda said: “In compliance with the law, Mazda works hard to ensure that every petrol and diesel engine it makes fully complies with the regulations.”
• Mitsubishi diesel cars produced an average of 0.274g/km of NOx, between 1.5 and 3.4 higher than in the lab. “The NEDC was never intended to represent real-world driving,” said a spokesman for Mitsubishi.
• The Emissions Analytics data seen by the Guardian also found Citroen, VW and Audi NOx emissions to be higher on the road than in the EU lab test.

Molden said Emissions Analytics had analysed about 50 Euro 6 diesels and 150 Euro 5 diesels, with only five having real-world NOx levels that matched the regulatory test. The failure of the EU’s NOx test to limit real-world emissions, and tackle air pollution, has been known for some years, but specific manufacturers have not been named.

“The VW issue in the US was purely the trigger which threw light on a slightly different problem in the EU - widespread legal over-emissions,” Molden said. “For NOx, [diesel] cars are on average four times over the legal limit, because of the lenient nature of the test cycle in the EU.” The Emissions Analytics tests showed 4x4s to have the highest NOx emissions, with several unnamed models emitting 15 times official levels and one more than 20 times.


“MEPs have been fighting for years to reform EU rules on diesel emissions-testing so they reflect real-world emissions. Yet the powerful car lobby and national governments have fiercely resisted these lifesaving changes,” said Catherine Bearder, a Lib Dem MEP and a lead negotiator in the European parliament on the EU’s new air quality law. “The people of Europe have waited long enough for cleaner air, they must not be made to wait any longer.”

Friends of the Earth air pollution campaigner Jenny Bates said: “With further manufacturers implicated, this is yet more evidence that this scandal goes way beyond VW, and should cause decision-makers to question the very future of diesel vehicles on our roads. This is a massive public health disgrace and the failure to prevent vehicles breaking pollution rules will have cost lives.”Analysis Emissions scandal: how the drive for diesel ran out of gas


Diesel, with its lower CO2emissions, was a policy priority but NOx failed to fall despite the ‘stringent’ regulations

Read moreTwo car companies, Mercedes and Honda, said that they supported a tightening of the regulations. “Mercedes-Benz emphatically supports the introduction of the WLTP test [which] is designed to supersede the NEDC, with the goal of bringing standardised and real-world consumption closer together,” said the spokesman. “To this end, we actively support the dialogue between industry (through trade group ACEA [European Automobile Manufacturers Association]) and the authorities.” Honda said it supported “additional testing in order to help strengthen regulatory and consumer confidence”.

However, in a letter seen by Reuters to EU officials, the ACEA chairman and Renault chief executive, Carlos Ghosn, said that no significant progress on NOx was possible before 2019. Reuters said that ACEA, which lobbies for Europe’s carmakers in Brussels, told the officials on 1 October that the NOx limit for a new, more realistic test should be 70% higher than today’s limit. An ACEA spokeswoman said it was “too early in the process to confirm or comment on hypothetical figures.”

“These new test results [from Emissions Analytics] prove that the Volkswagen scandal is just the tip of the iceberg. What we are seeing here is a dieselgate that covers many brands and many different car models,” said Greg Archer, an emissions expert at Transport & Environment. “The only solution is a strict new test that takes place on the road and verified by an authority not paid by the car industry.”

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dseag2

And at least the VW airbags won't blow up. Moral of the story... many automakers are just in it for a buck.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/did-5-ca...kata-air-bags/

​​​​​​CBS/AP February 27, 2017, 3:37 PM

Did 5 carmakers knowingly use unsafe Takata air bags?

Last Updated Feb 27, 2017 4:30 PM EST

DETROIT - Japanese auto parts maker Takata pleaded guilty on Monday to a criminal charge and agreed to pay $1 billion for a scheme to conceal a deadly defect in millions of its air bag inflators. In addition, plaintiffs in dozens of lawsuits against the air bag maker and five automakers allege the car companies knew that Takata’s products were dangerous yet continued to use them for years in order to save money.

Takata admits to hiding problems that can cause inflators to explode with too much force, hurling shrapnel into drivers and passengers. U.S. prosecutors still are seeking extradition of three former Takata executives from Japan to face criminal charges.

Detroit federal Judge George Caram Steeh accepted a guilty plea to a fraud charge Monday. It was entered by the company’s chief financial officer, Yoichiro Nomura, on Takata’s behalf. Nomura also agreed that Takata will be sold or merge with another company.

Takata has agreed to pay $850 million in restitution to automakers, $125 million for victims and families and a $25 million criminal fine. Separately, the company faces dozens of consumer and state lawsuits that could run into millions of dollars.

The allegations against Honda (HMC), Toyota (TM), Ford (F), Nissan (NSANY) and BMW were made in a filing Monday with a federal court in Miami, which is handling pretrial evidence-gathering in lawsuits against Takata and the automakers. The filing says documents produced in the case show the auto companies had independent knowledge that Takata’s air bag inflators were unsafe before putting them in millions of vehicles.

The allegations came just hours before Takata entered a guilty plea to one criminal charge and agreed to pay a $1 billion penalty at the hearing in Detroit.

The inflators are blamed for at least 16 deaths worldwide and more than 180 injuries. The problem touched off the largest automotive recall in U.S. history involving 42 million vehicles and up to 69 million inflators.Play VIDEO

Former Takata executives indicted for fraud and conspiracy

Unlike most other air bag makers, Takata uses the explosive chemical ammonium nitrate to inflate air bags instantly in a crash. But the chemical can deteriorate when exposed to prolonged airborne moisture.

Monday’s filing says that after an inflator ruptured in 2009, one of the auto companies described the problem as “one in which a passenger protection device was transformed into a killing weapon.” The company was not identified in the document.

The court filing marks the broadest allegation so far that automakers knew about Takata’s problems yet continued to use the inflators and put their customers in danger. The lawyers are trying to counter the auto companies’ assertion that they shouldn’t be liable because they, too, were deceived by Takata.

“The automotive defendants were aware that rupture after rupture, both during testing and in the field, confirmed how dangerous and defective Takata’s air bags were,” the attorneys allege in the court filing, called a “status report.”

But the automakers have pointed to Takata’s plea agreement, in which the Justice Department says Takata got the car companies to keep buying its inflators “through submission of false and fraudulent reports and other information that concealed the true and accurate test results.”

In addition to the deaths and injuries caused by Takata air bags, lawyers allege that vehicles sold by the automakers declined in value because they kept using the Takata equipment.

The filing Monday includes specific allegations that each of the automakers knew about Takata’s problems:

• Honda, Takata’s largest customer, was intimately involved in designing Takata inflators, and two Takata inflators exploded and ruptured at Honda facilities in 1999 and 2000. “Before Honda initiated its first narrow recall in 2008, at least eight ruptures had occurred in Honda vehicles,” the lawyers allege.
• Toyota had quality concerns about Takata in 2003, the same year that an inflator ruptured at a Toyota testing facility, the document says. At least 15 inflators in Toyotas blew apart by 2014, when the company issued a nationwide recall.
• Ford picked Takata inflators over the objections of its own inflator expert because Takata was apparently the only company that could provide the number of inflators Ford needed, the lawyers wrote. One document obtained through the pretrial process said that Ford had a “gun to its head, so it had to accept ammonium nitrate.”
• Nissan, the document said, switched to Takata inflators “primarily, if not solely” to save about $4 per inflator. Another automaker told Nissan about the risky inflators in 2006, eight years before Nissan began a national recall, the document said.
• At BMW, documents show the company went to Takata seeking cost savings. As early as 2003, a Takata inflator ruptured in a BMW in Switzerland.

BMW and Nissan said they couldn’t comment on pending litigation. Toyota declined to comment. Honda was preparing a statement. A message was left Monday with Ford.

Takata, which also makes seatbelts, has racked up two straight years of losses over the recalls but said it hopes to start turning a profit again this fiscal year.Play VIDEO

Volkswagen will pay billions in fines for emissions rigging

Takata’s penalty is small compared with the one imposed on Volkswagen, which must buy back cars and pay up to $21 billion in penalties and compensation to owners over its emissions-cheating scandal.

Karl Brauer, executive publisher of Kelley Blue Book, said authorities may have kept the penalty manageable so Takata could stay in business and continue to carry out the giant recall.

“My sense is there has been more kid-gloves treatment of Tataka simply because destroying them makes the problem much worse,” Brauer said.

RXSF

There is a difference between rigging your vehicles to specifically pass the regulatory emissions test vs real world NOx pollution figures. The latter is simply differences in testing vs actual driving behavior, much like the fuel consumption figures which are different.

Sulu

There is a great moral and legal difference between what VW did and what the other automakers did. VW got caught emitting more emissions that what the government-sanctioned tests claim AND VW was caught with an illegal cheating device to allow this to happen. The other automakers were caught spitting out more emissions but that was due to the terrible testing methodology that gives out widely optimistic values that no car could match in the real world.

Sulu

This is a straw man argument that has nothing to do with the fact that VW was caught with an illegal emissions cheating device. Let's stay on the topic of this thread. The Takata air bag scandal is a story onto itself.

Sniron

This was truly a shame. I turned my 2014 Passat TDI SEL Premium in about a month ago. Great car. I consistently got 40 MPG. I paid about 32,000.00 for it. Drove it for over 2 years and 81,000 miles. Turned it in for 24,000.00. Used the proceeds to pay 13,000.00 down on a 2015 CPO RX350. Although we loved the car, and in my opinion the little fuel injected turbocharged diesel was a wonderful piece of engineering, financially it just made no sense to keep it. I will say I am just crazy about the RX350.

mmarshall

I checked out a 2017 Chevy Cruze Diesel today.....one of the very few alternatives to the (for now, unavailable) lower-priced VW TDIs. Working on the write-up now. I'll have it posted later this evening.