2017 Mercedes E Class
#496
Lexus Fanatic
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The problem with esoteric discussions about the e-class in all its variations is that you are somehow trying to use market metrics and consumer behavior to say you should be cross-shopping one model of vehicle against the other and somehow people can be shoe-horned into mass-market car buying numbers because they must be skimping on dollars and that may determine their choices. E-class buyers generally are not necessarily worried about money.
Theres also a difference between being "worried about money" and being "worried about money". Wanting to stay in a certain price segment and not being capable of going above that are different things.
Originally Posted by Aron9000
I think the E-class(and Lexus ES, GS and LS sedans) sells to a lot of people who would've bought a Cadillac back in the 90's/early 00's. Cadillac has really gone out of vogue, but the E class offers a lot the the same characteristics of that 90's Cadillac in terms of comfort, easy to drive, smooth ride, inoffensive but unique styling(ie you know its a Benz), and technology/features. Yes the E class is more traditional Cadillac than what Cadillac is selling right now IMO.
My dad was a Lincoln and Cadillac driver in the 90s, moved to Lexus in 1998. He had a 1990 Lincoln Continental and a 1995 Cadillac STS, he considered the LS400 both times but didn't buy it largely because it was foreign and he did a lot of business with labor unions and didn't like the optics. What made him finally get the Lexus was quality, not that Cadillac or Lincoln no longer offered what he wanted in a vehicle from a comfort and driving dynamic perspective, it was just that the Lexus was a much higher quality, better built, more refined car.
At that time the E Class did not appeal to him at all because it was too firm and teutonic, stark inside. Too small. Same with a 5 Series. He would have been interested in an S Class or 7 Series, but they were more expensive and he was concerned about the optics of them being too expensive looking (he was in industrial sales).
If he were alive today he would like the way the E Class drove, but he would have an issue with it being too small. Same with the 5 Series and GS.
So the shift away from Cadillac and Lincoln wasn't because they stopped making what was a comfortable, nice riding car, it was because they just made a crappy car.
#498
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Exactly. I would venture to say that pretty much everybody here would be capable of going and getting a $115,000 S550. You have people in the market that max out what they can buy sure, but by and large you'll find that most buyers are spending well under what they theoretically COULD spend. Which is how people make jumps from the ES to an E Class or back again
#499
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I would venture to say that pretty much everybody here would be capable of going and getting a $115,000 S550. You have people in the market that max out what they can buy sure, but by and large you'll find that most buyers are spending well under what they theoretically COULD spend. Which is how people make jumps from the ES to an E Class or back again
Nevertheless, with the Verano going out of production next year (American sales stop in October), I myself may (?) be looking at something more upscale next time. Though I owned an IS300 for 5 years, I haven't had what I'd call a luxury-grade car since the early 1970s, when I was in college. The new Lacrosse and Lincoln MKZ interest me, but there are several things about them already that I don't like.
#500
Lexus Fanatic
#501
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You may have a point about keeping a reliable car. But, on the other hand, the Verano is a little small if I keep getting leg injuries like what recently happened with my knee, and have to get in or out with a brace or cast. (and, in my past, I've also broken both feet and sprained the other knee). Though I'm recovering very well from this latest injury (I plan to get back to auto reviews next week)
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And, of course, let's be honest. Even the much-better-than-average 2012 Verano, good as it is, is not likely to be any more reliable than a typical Corolla. Corollas and Honda Civics wrote the book on reliability. You aren't going to keep your Corolla 10-15 years, are you?
#502
Lexus Fanatic
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My dad was a Lincoln and Cadillac driver in the 90s, moved to Lexus in 1998. He had a 1990 Lincoln Continental and a 1995 Cadillac STS, he considered the LS400 both times but didn't buy it largely because it was foreign and he did a lot of business with labor unions and didn't like the optics. What made him finally get the Lexus was quality, not that Cadillac or Lincoln no longer offered what he wanted in a vehicle from a comfort and driving dynamic perspective, it was just that the Lexus was a much higher quality, better built, more refined car.
So your dad didn't like the early-90s E-Class interior? Too stark for him? While I've heard those comments before about Teutonic starkness in that era, it was otherwise difficult to criticize those M-B products built before the mid-90s, when Lexus/Infiniti competition started to force compromises, to save costs, in the way M-B products were designed and built. Up to the mid-90s or so, M-B products were like tanks.
Last edited by mmarshall; 08-06-16 at 10:03 AM.
#503
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The Corolla will probably be kept for 10 years, we have three other cars and the Matrix from 2009 will probably be the first to go. We have no payments on anything and are not looking either.
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 08-06-16 at 11:11 AM.
#504
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As long as they're in a similar ball park for price, they are comparable for sales.
Historically, the E Class has been a solid seller, being able to maintain its class leading sales from the start of its model cycle, all the way to the end of its model cycle [similar to the RX].
An RX is an even better seller, because the RX is able to maintain its strong sales from the start to the end of its model cycle, but the RX is able to maintain a much greater buffer to its next nearest rival.
Look at Canon [cameras] - Canon sells more cameras than its entire competition added together!
E Class, RX and in particular, Canon has a loyalty/following as mentioned by Rominl.
However, it should be reminded that in the world of photography, despite Canon's sales, it is still well understood that Canon and Nikon are equals in quality, but in different ways.
In a similar way, despite E Class' class leading sales, it doesn't mean that rivals like 5 Series, A6 & GS are hopeless cars.
They are all good cars, but in different ways.
Photography is a compromise.
Car design is also a compromise.
The more one has of A, the less one will have of B.
Pick one that best suits your needs, wants and tastes, and enjoy...
.
#505
Lexus Champion
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Models are never exactly the same price.
As long as they're in a similar ball park for price, they are comparable for sales.
Historically, the E Class has been a solid seller, being able to maintain its class leading sales from the start of its model cycle, all the way to the end of its model cycle [similar to the RX].
An RX is an even better seller, because the RX is able to maintain its strong sales from the start to the end of its model cycle, but the RX is able to maintain a much greater buffer to its next nearest rival.
Look at Canon [cameras] - Canon sells more cameras than its entire competition added together!
E Class, RX and in particular, Canon has a loyalty/following as mentioned by Rominl.
However, it should be reminded that in the world of photography, despite Canon's sales, it is still well understood that Canon and Nikon are equals in quality, but in different ways.
In a similar way, despite E Class' class leading sales, it doesn't mean that rivals like 5 Series, A6 & GS are hopeless cars.
They are all good cars, but in different ways.
Photography is a compromise.
Car design is also a compromise.
The more one has of A, the less one will have of B.
Pick one that best suits your needs, wants and tastes, and enjoy...
.
As long as they're in a similar ball park for price, they are comparable for sales.
Historically, the E Class has been a solid seller, being able to maintain its class leading sales from the start of its model cycle, all the way to the end of its model cycle [similar to the RX].
An RX is an even better seller, because the RX is able to maintain its strong sales from the start to the end of its model cycle, but the RX is able to maintain a much greater buffer to its next nearest rival.
Look at Canon [cameras] - Canon sells more cameras than its entire competition added together!
E Class, RX and in particular, Canon has a loyalty/following as mentioned by Rominl.
However, it should be reminded that in the world of photography, despite Canon's sales, it is still well understood that Canon and Nikon are equals in quality, but in different ways.
In a similar way, despite E Class' class leading sales, it doesn't mean that rivals like 5 Series, A6 & GS are hopeless cars.
They are all good cars, but in different ways.
Photography is a compromise.
Car design is also a compromise.
The more one has of A, the less one will have of B.
Pick one that best suits your needs, wants and tastes, and enjoy...
.
#506
Lexus Champion
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The Mercedes-Benz E-Class sedans sell for 2 reasons:
- They are Mercedes-Benz cars. MB has history behind it, tracing back to Gottlieb Daimler and Karl Benz, the 2 fathers of the modern motocar. Because of this history, when you ask anyone, even someone who knows nothing about cars (other than the fact that they have 5 wheels -- 4 tires and a steering wheel), they will know Mercedes-Benz.
- It is an E-Class. The E-Class is arguably the oldest luxury car, tracing its roots back more than 60 years to the first MB "Ponton" 180 of 1953. The E-Class has a greater legacy than the S-Class. The E-Class is Mercedes-Benz.
#507
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Yes, the E Class must win the award not just for the longest history, but also the most consistent performance.
The E Class deserves its heritage & its reputation.
I almost bought an E Class three times myself.
But like I say, don't just start trading in your 535i's, A6's & GS350's...
.
The E Class deserves its heritage & its reputation.
I almost bought an E Class three times myself.
But like I say, don't just start trading in your 535i's, A6's & GS350's...
.
Last edited by peteharvey; 08-06-16 at 09:58 PM.
#508
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I agree part of the shift away from Cadillac was too many people were burned by them back in the 80's/90's/early 00's. I still think that's a big part of why they are struggling to sell today, too many previous owners with a bad taste in their mouth. Polarizing styling and the firmer ride were other contributors that drove away their traditional customer base as well.
Last edited by Aron9000; 08-07-16 at 12:37 AM.
#509
Lexus Fanatic
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When I say "crappy car" I'm not really talking about reliability, I'm talking about build quality, interior quality. The RWD BOF Cadillacs were just as big offenders in that regard, even more so. His 95 STS had pretty poor build quality, as in panels weren't installed well, gaps inconsistent, but material quality was quite good, not something you can say about those 90s RWD Cadillacs. Plastic crap, fake wood, stitching pressed into vinyl. Terrible. compare it to an early 90s LS400 or BMW/ Benz there is no comparison.
Their if customer was gone long before they shifted to firmer driving characteristics.
Their if customer was gone long before they shifted to firmer driving characteristics.
#510
Lexus Champion
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Yes, the E Class must win the award not just for the longest history, but also the most consistent performance.
The E Class deserves its heritage & its reputation.
I almost bought an E Class three times myself.
But like I say, don't just start trading in your 535i's, A6's & GS350's...
.
The E Class deserves its heritage & its reputation.
I almost bought an E Class three times myself.
But like I say, don't just start trading in your 535i's, A6's & GS350's...
.