gengar

Agreed. A friend just picked up the new ES and while it seems more refined than pre-refresh, it's not nearly as luxurious as the LS. I just don't think many people who are used to the LS are going to enjoy the ES.

SW17LS

Got my LS back...what a relief. I put 150 miles on the ES loaner, seats are uncomfortable, console is too low and dug into my knee, car rides pretty good and is quiet enough but tire roar is fairly loud, and overall the LS is on another level. Everything is so refined in the LS from the feel of the doors shutting to the feel of the shifter as you move it through the gears, after being used to the LS the ES feels positively rough edged and insubstantial in these areas.

I enjoyed my ES's, but IMHO they're disposable cars while the LS is a keeper. GS I felt the same way about, its a keeper too just a different approach to a car.

Toys4RJill

Well, I imagine it should be?

SW17LS

Again, were replying about natnut suggesting that someone trade an older LS460 in on a new ES350. That's why the comparison was made.

Toys4RJill

And I imagine that Lexus that costs twice is as much should. Most people would not downsize. BUT, a 16 LS is still really a 07 LS, that is the part that is hard to justify. At least those who might downsize to a ES will get a new chassis built in this dacade. It's sad that Lexus left the 3.5 unchanged from 2004.

SW17LS

It's a 2007 LS with over 3,500 new components, and is still significantly superior to an ES with a platform "built this decade". All of that is beside the point though. An LS430 or LS400 even as old as they are are superior cars outside of technology than a brand new ES. One needs to understand that if they are going to trade an older LS in for a new ES and temper their expectations.

Anyways the ES platform is not "all new", that Avalon/Camry platform has been around a long time. Some changes over "generations" but at its core, it's not that much further from the previous gen Avalon than. 2013-2015 LS is from an 07 LS.

You're obsessed with everything being "new", but newer isn't always better.

BornDriver

2016GS looks sharp, pre-year looks half-cooked boring....

mmarshall

The 4Gen ES300/330 was just superb inside and out. It really was a mini-LS if there was such a thing. But the 5Gen ES, and especially the present 6Gen, had noticeable cost-cutting in materials, and the suspension and tires were slightly stiffened.

SW17LS

I went from an LS to that generation ES. The LS was significantly superior than the ES then too, even a 5 year old LS with 100k miles. The interior of that ES was very nice, nicer than the newer ones (except maybe the 2016 in areas) but nothing like the LS. It was a hard adjustment but it's what I could afford.

Toys4RJill

mmarshall, what are your thoughts on the LS platform essentially being the same as the model that debuted in 2006. Keep in mind that the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gen never ever made it past 6 MY years. ???

mmarshall

Well, I'm not one that necessarily believes in things staying the same all the time and never changing, but with the LS, it goes to show, IMO, what an excellent luxury car the 2006 version actually was. I remember doing a review on it...and the refinement was mind-boggling (and the Mark Levinson stereo in it was just insanely good). It was probably one of the two quietest cars I myself have ever driven....the other being WAY back in 1969 when, as a newly-licensed teen-ager, my late father, working for Philco-Ford (remember that company?), would bring home BIG Mercury Park Lanes and Marquis from the shop. He would let me try them out, alone, because he knew I was a safe and careful driver (not like some of the idiots I went to school with). One night, he brought home a company Vice-Presidential car.......a brand-new Lincoln Continental. He tossed me the keys and said "Here, Mike...enjoy it, but BE CAREFUL". That car was probably the only other vehicle I myself have ever sampled that drove as quietly as the '06 LS.

I didn't go into this story, BTW, just to re-hash my high school years with you, but to show that cars like that-generation LS are few and far between.

mmarshall

Yes, I know it was not the equal of an LS of that generation (see my reply to Jill just above)...but IMO at least, it was significantly closer to an LS in interior and refinement than the ES is today.

SW17LS

What do you think about the Corolla Mike? I had one as a rental last week when I had tires put on my LS. I can't imagine why someone would buy a Corolla with all of the compelling entries in that segment nowadays. At least it has a modern platform I suppose lol. I legitimately thought it was one of the least compelling cars I had ever driven. Wouldn't even track straight on the highway.

I should trade in my LS and buy 3 or 4

rominl

iTrader: (4)

the early 2000s es was nice but it was still NOTHING compared to the ls430 at that time. and there is simply ridiculous for anyone to choose ES over LS unless cost is a considerable factor

SW17LS

People who have never had an LS may not be able to understand that, but as you know its a considerable difference between the LS and any other Lexus model...