mmarshall

Well, of course, age and mileage on a 10-year-old vehicle is a significant factor, but, given the choice, I'd probably rather have a mint-condition LS from that generation (particularly if it had the AWD option) than a brand-new ES.

And an economic factor: I don't know if you have a Personal Property Tax there in Toronto where you live. Here, in Virginia, we have an unusual legal set-up where the State constitution does not allow local County income taxes....only state income taxes. So, instead, most of the revenue at the County level is generated by the Real Estate Tax on houses/lots and a yearly Personal Property Tax on County-registered cars, trucks, motorcycles, airplanes, tractors, boats, etc......almost any motorized transportation device. The tax is assessed each year, based on the (January 1) KBB-assessed value of the vehicle(s). Obviously, for car owners, this tends to favor owning an old, low-value car, as he or she is paying little yearly tax on it. Even with that, in general, I agree with your overall view that new vehicles (property tax and all, LOL), are usually better than used, but an older LS, in my view, was such a nice car that it would be one of those rare exceptions, particularly if it was in mint condition.

Toys4RJill

I disagree, a four year LS460 is not more car than a ES350 from 2016.

SW17LS

Well when you've actually owned 3 LSs and two ESs come talk to me LOL. You having driven a couple of them around the block over the years as the basis for your opinion makes it pretty worthless.

I've logged 270,000 miles in the LS and 215,000 miles in the ES, but lets all just sit here and listen to you

Toys4RJill

You don't have to listen to me at all, your response is why it seems you are defensive about your LS purchase.

A new 2016 with a "this decade" modern design, some newer features, lower cost of ownership, cheaper to fuel and a full modern warranty is more car than a 2012 LS. So much more car in fact!

Is a new 2016 LS more car than a 2016 ES? That is a no brainer! But it does cost 2-3 times as such.

mmarshall

With accumulated miles like that, good thing your Sedona has that 10/100 drivetrain warranty

SW17LS

I'm not defensive at all, what would I have to be defensive about? You're posting stuff out here that people are taking as solid advice when you have no experience from which to offer that advice. Theres an old saying "Someone with experience is not at the mercy of someone with an opinion". Whenever you post something thats BS, count on me to be right there to point it out.

The reason you feel that way is because you have not owned either vehicle, let alone both vehicles. I have owned both vehicles, and I went from an older LS to a new ES. You don't think my viewpoint on the value of going from an old LS to a new ES is of value? Might potentially be of more value than yours since you have owned neither vehicle and have not done that? I've done it...you haven't.

The LS is on another level entirely from an ES, regardless of whether the ES is new and the LS is old. No joke, a 20 year old LS rides significantly better, smoother, more refined, quieter than a brand new ES. The technology difference between a 2012 LS and a 2016 ES is minimal...remember...I owned a Lexus of the same tech era as the 2012 LS and I have owned two Lexus cars with modern tech. The only technology a 2016 ES has that a 2012 LS does not have is the enform remote app. Thats it. Navigation is the same basically, you have nav traffic, you have BT audio streaming, you have phone linked apps, you have enform...and you have no RTC which you yammer on about all the time.

If you get a CPO LS it has a better warranty than a new ES. You have a car that is significantly more comfortable, better riding, quieter, more prestige. The car has more staying power (the ES doesn't age like the LS), much more refined powertrain.

Cost of maintenance and fuel? Its a luxury car, not everybody is hung up on maintenance costs. You'd be surprised to know that a RWD LS doesn't do much worse on gas than an ES. 30 MPG on the highway. Cost of maintenance? Its basically the same.

Like I said, I'm not a used car guy. I lease for business, I would choose the 2016 ES (well, I would choose a Hyundai Genesis but thats another argument) over a CPO 2012 LS, but I can absolutely understand why someone would choose the 4 year old LS over a new ES.

If you had any experience with the cars you would to, but you don't...so you don't.

Thats over 18 years LOL

But, I did just roll over 10k miles in the 2015 LS in 7 months. Yikes.

Toys4RJill

^ if that's how you feel and if you say you are not defensive, then OK.

SW17LS

Please, enlighten us as to what your personal experience with these vehicles is that gives you a basis from which to refute anything I or the others have said?

Toys4RJill

I haven't owned either, but I have never said that a 2016 ES is a better car than a 2016 LS. There is nothing that will convince me that a 2012 LS is a better buy or smarter buy than a new 2016 ES.

It seems that you think that I have said that a 2016 ES is a better car than an LS. It's not, but a 2016 ES is more car than a 2012 LS for the reasons i said earlier.

I trust that you think that 1996 LS is a better riding vehicle than a 2016 ES, but ride experience is subjective.

And what is astonishing is that the 2013 ES300h is quieter a full throttle as well as 70mph highway than a 2007 LS460. That is according to Edmund's.

SW17LS

Thats your opinion. I don't agree. It may be a better purchase for a certain person depending on their situation, but there is no situation where a 2016 ES is a better "car" than a 2012 LS just looking at the merits of the vehicle. The only people who would say that are those who have not had both cars.

I don't think that...I know it to be the case. Have you driven a 1996 LS400? I had a 1998 LS400 which is basically the same car for 160,000 miles. Even today if you're driving a well maintained example a 20 year old LS rides more smoothly, quietly, and comfortably than a 2016 ES. Significantly more refined.

Look up the figure for a later year LS460. Remember that the early LS460 had wind and road noise issues. The 2011 LS is pretty much the lowest dB car edmunds has on records at 58.2dB at 70 MPH cruise:

https://www.edmunds.com/lexus/ls-460...est-specs.html



2013 ES300h:

http://www.edmunds.com/lexus/es-300h...est-specs.html



As comparison, here is a new S550:

http://www.edmunds.com/mercedes-benz...st-specs2.html



You won't find another car quieter than 58.2.

Next?

greg3852

I purchased a used LS over a new ES or GS. My LS had 54k miles on it, and I still chose it over going with the ES or GS. You cannot compare an ES to even a used LS. Every single time I go to the dealership and get in one of the ES's they have I laugh at how my 2007 LS is still more comfortable and better quality than the new ES's.

I have also logged many miles in an older LS 400 and still feel the 98-00 400's are fantastic cars. I would almost venture to say they may offer a better ride than a new ES as well. They were built that well.

Commenting without owning or driving any significant distance in either car is ridiculous. That's like telling me what it's like in the US Marine Corps when you've never been in the military.

Stroock639

SW15LS laying down that triple KO

i still remember when i first drove my LS back from the grandparents' house. i remember it wasn't the quietest car when it first started but when i got inside, as soon as the door closed it suddenly became like a soundproof chamber lol. don't feel any vibrations, and there's hardly any noise at all. then once everything warms up and the idle drops to like 750 or whatever it is you really don't hear anything.

then i remember accidentally doing like 60 in a 35 after just coasting down some hill. then i understood why my grandpa would get pulled over lolol, you really have to actively watch the speedometer to avoid going over the limit (sounds dangerous to me, having to constantly take your eyes off the road ) which i why i usually just use cruise control. even though i've made the car less comfortable with my 'adjustments' it's still noticeably more comfortable and better riding than my friends stock 2008 IS 250.

i know this new ES isn't but the ES has always been just a slightly nicer camry whereas the LS is it's own platform and it's literally the best toyota can do and the ES is built to make money and make lexus more obtainable. the LS is also just a bit excessive to be honest lol but now it's too late and i've been spoiled by it and won't be happy with something else.