Lexus LC News
02-22-16, 12:36 PM
#1891
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
^^^ good post. 
02-22-16, 11:07 PM
#1893
Lexus Test Driver
Ya got me there 
Good post on the real-world differences between high power German hybrids and Toyota's HSD system.
But then again, the LC500h could be priced above $100k which would put it in the same bracket as the BMW i8 and Tesla Model S. It doesn't have plugin capability and the electric-only range isn't even mentioned. Unlike the comparison between a much cheaper RX450h and the Cayenne E-hybrid, the LC500h is competing head on with price and features against PHEVs and BEVs which are a lot more advanced. Real world mpg figures don't count as much when the competitors can just be charged overnight.
I still think Lexus missed a chance to make a hybrid halo car. They just made a big, fast Prius when they could have really pushed the envelope, like with the LFA.
Good post on the real-world differences between high power German hybrids and Toyota's HSD system. But then again, the LC500h could be priced above $100k which would put it in the same bracket as the BMW i8 and Tesla Model S. It doesn't have plugin capability and the electric-only range isn't even mentioned. Unlike the comparison between a much cheaper RX450h and the Cayenne E-hybrid, the LC500h is competing head on with price and features against PHEVs and BEVs which are a lot more advanced. Real world mpg figures don't count as much when the competitors can just be charged overnight.
I still think Lexus missed a chance to make a hybrid halo car. They just made a big, fast Prius when they could have really pushed the envelope, like with the LFA.
02-23-16, 02:13 AM
#1894
I personally think it is a mistake Lexus decided to skip plug-in hybrids and decided to go directly from hybrid to hydrogen.
They really could've made an even larger statement being early in the plug-in battery game but instead they made decently hybrid efficient cars and we still have to wait a long time for the hydrogen, and we don't even know the future of hydrogen. A little bit of a risky move~
But then again, I'm not on Toyota's future planning or R&D, maybe they know something interesting...
They really could've made an even larger statement being early in the plug-in battery game but instead they made decently hybrid efficient cars and we still have to wait a long time for the hydrogen, and we don't even know the future of hydrogen. A little bit of a risky move~
But then again, I'm not on Toyota's future planning or R&D, maybe they know something interesting...
02-23-16, 09:44 AM
#1896
I think too many people glance over performance and look only at hp numbers. It is 2016, hp numbers matter little for performance since there are many different technologies being used like diesels, hybrids, phevs, etc.
LC is going to do 0-60 in 4.5s or 4.6s. Thats way better than GS450h (over full second better).
Does it really matter if it has 200, 300 or 900hp? It is performance that matters.
LC is going to have over 200hp worth of electric motors inside, together with 295hp engine. Thats what makes 0-60 in 4.5/4.6s possible.
Auto Express had review of Porsche vs RX450h vs X90 Diesel. Porsche was a plugin, big hp numbers, lithium ion battery, etc, etc. Spec warrior dream powertrain. RX450h is missing this new 4AT gear reduction so it is significantly slower 0-60... then it also doesnt have lithium ion plugin battery so its official mpg is much worse.
What we ended up after the test?
- RX450h is significantly faster in-gear
- RX450h gets 30% better MPG in real life
- RX450h is $20k cheaper not being a plugin
As tested
HP
RX450h: 300hp
Cayenne PHEV: 510hp
0-60
RX450h: 7.8s
Cayenne PHEV: 5.5s
30-50 mph
RX450h: 2.8s
Cayenne PHEV: 3.0s
50-70 mph
RX450h: 3.8s
Cayenne PHEV: 4.6s
MPG as tested:
RX450h: 26.9 mpg (UK)
Cayenne PHEV: 22.8 mpg (UK)
Price difference as tested: $20k
If I bought Porsche based on its 510hp and claimed 83.1 MPG, I would feel scammed. Thats why nobody buys them unless they get $10k-$20k tax deduction from government, like in Norway or UK or few other european countries. Otherwise they buy their diesel which is as fast in-gear and gets mid 20's MPG all day long.
And this is why pure numbers dont work anymore in 2016. LC500h with Porsche powertrain from Cayenne would be a much, much worse vehicle despite "having" 510hp and "100 MPG".
LC is going to do 0-60 in 4.5s or 4.6s. Thats way better than GS450h (over full second better).
Does it really matter if it has 200, 300 or 900hp? It is performance that matters.
LC is going to have over 200hp worth of electric motors inside, together with 295hp engine. Thats what makes 0-60 in 4.5/4.6s possible.
Auto Express had review of Porsche vs RX450h vs X90 Diesel. Porsche was a plugin, big hp numbers, lithium ion battery, etc, etc. Spec warrior dream powertrain. RX450h is missing this new 4AT gear reduction so it is significantly slower 0-60... then it also doesnt have lithium ion plugin battery so its official mpg is much worse.
What we ended up after the test?
- RX450h is significantly faster in-gear
- RX450h gets 30% better MPG in real life
- RX450h is $20k cheaper not being a plugin
As tested
HP
RX450h: 300hp
Cayenne PHEV: 510hp
0-60
RX450h: 7.8s
Cayenne PHEV: 5.5s
30-50 mph
RX450h: 2.8s
Cayenne PHEV: 3.0s
50-70 mph
RX450h: 3.8s
Cayenne PHEV: 4.6s
MPG as tested:
RX450h: 26.9 mpg (UK)
Cayenne PHEV: 22.8 mpg (UK)
Price difference as tested: $20k
If I bought Porsche based on its 510hp and claimed 83.1 MPG, I would feel scammed. Thats why nobody buys them unless they get $10k-$20k tax deduction from government, like in Norway or UK or few other european countries. Otherwise they buy their diesel which is as fast in-gear and gets mid 20's MPG all day long.
And this is why pure numbers dont work anymore in 2016. LC500h with Porsche powertrain from Cayenne would be a much, much worse vehicle despite "having" 510hp and "100 MPG".
02-23-16, 11:02 AM
#1897
Pole Position
Ya got me there Good post on the real-world differences between high power German hybrids and Toyota's HSD system.
But then again, the LC500h could be priced above $100k which would put it in the same bracket as the BMW i8 and Tesla Model S. It doesn't have plugin capability and the electric-only range isn't even mentioned. Unlike the comparison between a much cheaper RX450h and the Cayenne E-hybrid, the LC500h is competing head on with price and features against PHEVs and BEVs which are a lot more advanced. Real world mpg figures don't count as much when the competitors can just be charged overnight.
I still think Lexus missed a chance to make a hybrid halo car. They just made a big, fast Prius when they could have really pushed the envelope, like with the LFA.
Good post on the real-world differences between high power German hybrids and Toyota's HSD system. But then again, the LC500h could be priced above $100k which would put it in the same bracket as the BMW i8 and Tesla Model S. It doesn't have plugin capability and the electric-only range isn't even mentioned. Unlike the comparison between a much cheaper RX450h and the Cayenne E-hybrid, the LC500h is competing head on with price and features against PHEVs and BEVs which are a lot more advanced. Real world mpg figures don't count as much when the competitors can just be charged overnight.
I still think Lexus missed a chance to make a hybrid halo car. They just made a big, fast Prius when they could have really pushed the envelope, like with the LFA.
Statement cars are nice--FOR the manufacturer to boast about. FOR the consumer? Usually just a bigger hassle and an inconvenience to one's lifestyle and daily routine.I for one am glad that Lexus made this performance hybrid car with an eye for ease of use for the customer rather than some pointless tech exercise that few buyers can take advantage of. As spywolf has said, there are very few takers for the Porsche plug-in hybrids even in their home country due to poor real life performance and fuel economy not to mention the need for special infrastructure to make owning such a car practical.
02-23-16, 11:10 AM
#1898
First of all, the Cayenne Hybrid is rated at 416hp, not 510hp. You're not going to get 510hp unless you buy the Turbo. Not that it matters since the E-Hybrid is still expensive for 416hp.
Second, the Cayenne's 30-50mph run was done in 3rd gear (3.0s) and 4th gear (3.9s). Since the RX uses a CVT, there are no 3rd or 4th gear so they floored it. The transmission would have kicked it down to an equivalent of 2nd gear, which is why Auto Express only shows one result for the test, and that is 2.8s. Throw the Cayenne in 2nd gear and I guarantee it'll do better than 2.6s.
Second, the Cayenne's 30-50mph run was done in 3rd gear (3.0s) and 4th gear (3.9s). Since the RX uses a CVT, there are no 3rd or 4th gear so they floored it. The transmission would have kicked it down to an equivalent of 2nd gear, which is why Auto Express only shows one result for the test, and that is 2.8s. Throw the Cayenne in 2nd gear and I guarantee it'll do better than 2.6s.
02-23-16, 01:31 PM
#1899
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The Model S is a pure electric car and simply does not offer the range a gasoline-powered car does and is therefore targeting quite a different demographics.
A plug-in hybrid will require a much bigger battery and will make the LC that much heavier and pricier, and as such I don't think will be worth the effort unless it targets the same $140k bracket too and can therefore afford much more extensive use of exotic lightweight materials, but then at that bracket it'll need to be restyled to look more like an exotic car like the i8 and most other $140k cars do.
As long as the LC500h offers similar real-world performance to the LC500, I think it'll make for a great addition to the starting lineup of the LC for the green-minded and tax-minded (outside the US) people.
Last edited by ydooby; 02-23-16 at 04:21 PM.
02-23-16, 04:14 PM
#1900
Lexus Test Driver
I think Lexus are being very pragmatic with this car - they're making the sports car equivalent of an ES300h or IS300h, not another LS600h that's pricy and not well-received. It'll have decent power and a big mileage jump over the non-hybrid. Good on them but I still wish they'd pushed the limits on this project.
As for plugin hybrid performance SUVs, those are a solution to a problem no one asked. Big SUVs are already heavy and weight goes through the roof when you add 9+ kWh battery packs. The new X5 hybrid has horrible consumption because the electric motor is mated to a tiny 2.0 turbo that has to lug around all that weight. Electric range is dismal if you drive it with performance in mind. I think the Outlander PHEV is the only plugin SUV that makes sense and it's designed for efficiency, not performance.
02-23-16, 04:23 PM
#1901
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The i8 starts from $140k as I said, though I made a typo of "$14k" previously.
Please check the official website:
http://www.bmwusa.com/bmw/bmwi/i8
Please check the official website:
http://www.bmwusa.com/bmw/bmwi/i8
) and will have a higher hp for the LC F