I just saw the video and yes, they have the PSD still in place in between MG1 and MG2.

 

We also don't need 1000hp cars, but it's done because of the spirit of technology and innovation.


You surely don't want the Kool Aid. Thank you for not drinking it.

 

If I had a choice between a 4spd and 1000hp car I would pick the car.

My point is toyota is showing us this fancy new transmission (if that's whats it called), its being praised as revolutionary and I still don't know its benefit/ potential.

The same company pushes old powertrains on to new cars without hope in sight. The RX has been using the same v6 for 3 generations. The same V8 used in a IS-F which made its debut in 06 is being use in their flagship GS in 2016. In that period of time AMG was using the old 5.5 supercharged mill, its cycled through 3 engines and is now on its 4th.

So this is what I come away with:

They are investing r&d money in to niche products, that so far are purposeless. They're not giving us what we want
or
This piece of revolutionary kit isn't as revolutionary as its being markated.

 

i'm sure there's some benefit there in all that complexity, but i can't see it yet.

 

The Toyota video never mentioned "a revolutionary engine." The trainer in the video stated "It'll be a revolution of the way hybrids are percieved."

The article's author used the term.



You can nit-pick on the language. You're the one reading and interpreting it.

 

to save people going to the home page, here's the video:

 

in video it says they now have CVT + 4 gear box
says it can shift in 10 gear combinations...

CVT simulates 3 gear steps x 3 in gear box is equivalent to 9 gear combinations, and the 4th physical gear with the same (presumably top) only CVT 'gear' gives an overdrive style '10th' gear.

interesting...

if the software controlling all that is done well, it should be amazing.

 

4 gear box is acting as true reduction gearbox for PSD. So it is giving it low end, high end power that it did not have in previous configuration, plus 100 MPH efficiency due to much longer gearing (thats the 4th gear). Between those 4 gears, PSD can do infinite number of gear variations.

So the benefits are:
1. Much faster low speed performance due to first reduction gear. So you have LC500h, vehicle thats 20hp stronger than GS450h and SAME weight, going 4.5s 0-60 vs 5.6s for GS450h. Difference is huge.
2. Much better performance at higher end with top speed supposedly much better than current Lexus hybrids.
3. Overdrive gear will do wonders for highway MPG
4. Electric-only driving at 87 MPH (again much better mpg at regular highway speeds).

So it is like having your cake and eating it. Not only performance in same weight will be substantially better, it will also have better real life mpg and it will also feel better due to real shift points.

edit: only question for me is if this makes it down to GS500h (likely) and RX500h... this would transform RX Hybrid. Right now main difference between the two is that RX450h has single gear PSD while GS450h has expensive 2 gear HSD (hence the price of vehicle). They could possibly make performance version of RX with this, that goes 0-60 under 6 seconds AND gets much better mpg at highway.

 

< spot on.

The snappy shifts he describes will be a good improvement from the other hybrid systems as well.

 

GS500h and RX500h sound really enticing

 

Good find on the Car and Driver article. I wish they showed a system diagram though. I'm surprised they brought up the GM/BMW Two Mode system because it was very expensive to produce and didn't get good mileage.

If the 4AT acts as a reduction gear for the engine, that will allow higher top speeds and EV speeds. Right now, with single planetary gearset PSDs, MG1 rotates backwards to set engine speed. System top speed is limited by how fast MG1 can spin, that's why most hybrids have a low top speed.

The LC500h might be battery-limited on MG2 but hopefully it can give a big electric boost with a fully charged battery. I'm wondering if they use a clutch on the overdrive gear like on the new Prius.

As for an RX500h, I doubt there's enough space on the platform. The RX450h uses a transverse FWD setup for the hybrid drive. Putting a longitudinal drivetrain would need a lot of work. A GS500h or RC500h would be possible.

 

I know a lot of people love Lexus on this board. But I don't find a hybrid LC in any special or exciting. A turbo or a V10 or even a V12 would of been extra special and worth paying attention to. Not everything needs a hybrid.

 

They've tried the V10. The engine alone came out costing over $150,000

 

Hybrids are a stepping stone to an EV future and Lexus lead the world in hybrid engineering, so why not? The 918, P1 and LaFerrari are current gen hypercars and they're all hybrids. The NSX is a hybrid, maybe Lexus are targeting that car with the LCh.

Even a lowly ES300h has awesome low end torque from the electric motor. An LC500h would have crazy torque from standstill, a ripping top end from the engine and decent mileage - you can have your cake and eat it too

And if you want bonkers V12 power, there's always Pagani.

 

There are folks who appreciate the ability to goose power using a hybrid and gaining efficiency.

I can tell you from 2.5+ years with my Q50S AWD Hybrid, the car blows most stuff off the line, gets around 28 mpg, can carry 4 adults in real comfort and is great in all kinds of weather.