Dont want to burst anyone's bubble but just for sake of complexity compare the first picture in this thread to this

 

This is very similar to Q50S in term of total output. But then imagine half a second faster 0-60, more fluid system and 35 MPG. Since Lexus has much stronger motor for regenerative braking, 60hp from battery can be utilized more. Also, significant real life savings at 80 MPH highway that cant be seen on EPA.

When we are talking about 0-60 in 4.5s, then I think thats "good enough" for most people. Especially since in-gear acceleration is actually faster than what that 0-60 suggests. Thats really a sports car numbers there.


For us Europeans, compared to GS450h, it would allow it to get even lower CO2 rating for taxes, but most important would be that it can go electric up to 87 MPH, as well as significantly better top speed. So that 20-30% real life benefit in highway mpg, together with everything else would make this a star engine for Europe... now question is only of price.

 

too many abbreviations...

what is 'PSD'?

i recall HSD is hybrid synergy drive, but i don't know what that is. and why would it be expensive vs. anything else? it's just gearing, isn't it?

what is MG1!?

MG2?

 

not quite - they aren't giving you what you want or fully expect - but for the consensus of their customer base, they are. if you need to have the high HP for bragging rights, there are many other brands for you to choose from. however, Lexus is balancing the mix of luxury, drive-ability, power, and most importantly reliability - and having ample time behind all the niche F models (outside of a quick lap in the LFA), they certainly doing it right.

as for the non-change of engines since 2006, yes it's dated but Lexus isn't in the HP war that requires them to go back to the drawing board when a competitor pushes out a new model with a more powerful engine, and I find that perfectly acceptable. not to mention, the same brands continuously trying to out duel themselves with high output engines are being hit with class action suits because the engines are basically deemed garbage - 6.3amg for example.

 

Electric cars = electric horse no?

 

If they can get that kind of performance from the 3.5 V6 hybrid, imagine the kind of performance they can get if they shoved the V8 from the LSh into that new hydrid system.

 

Most of that is development cost spread out to only 500 units. I'm sure if they update it, add a turbo and use it on the LC F and future LS F, it wouldnt cost nearly as much. Besides, much of that has been amortized with the LFA.

 

HSD: Hybrid Synergy Drive (proper noun) is the brand name for the Toyota Hybrid System (THS). Its key components are the hybrid (traction) battery, PSD and 2 motor-generators, MG1 and MG2.

PSD: Power Split Device is the heart of the Toyota (and Ford, and GM Voltec) hybrid system transmission. It is a differential that allows power from the internal combustion engine (ICE) to be used to drive the car directly, provide additional power to assist the electric motor (MG2) that drives the car, or provide power to MG1 to charge the battery.

MG1: Motor-Generator 1 takes the place of the starter and electrical power generator in a normal, non-hybrid drivetrain. It can function as an electric motor to start the ICE, drawing electrical power from the battery. It can also function as an electrical generator, being turned by the ICE through the PSD to generate electricity to assist MG2 or charge the battery.

MG2: Motor-Generator 2 is the traction motor that drives the car by controlling the speed of the driven wheels. During coasting and regenerative braking, it also generates electricity to charge the battery.

The PSD is a planetary gearset acting as a differential, routing power from the engine for different uses. Unlike a planetary gearset acting as an automatic-shifting gearbox (transmission), it cannot offer different gear ratios; the PSD offers only 1 gear ratio. It is the ICE operating together with MG1 that gives the PSD a CVT-like (constant engine speed) function.

Toyota's FWD-based hybrid cars (Prius, Camry, ESh, etc.) have only the single planetary gearset PSD.

Further gear reduction requires an additional gearset. Lexus GSh and LSh stick an additional planetary gearset behind the PSD for gear reduction purposes. The Lexus LC will go a step beyond that, making the additional planetary gearset an automatically-shifting transmission with 4 different gear ratios (1 of which seems to be an overdrive gear).

It is this additional planetary gearset that makes the hybrid system in the GSh and LSh more expensive.

If and when Toyota can reduce the size of the combined PSD and automatically-shifting gearbox into a tight, space-saving package for transverse placement, will it be possible to use the Multi Stage Hybrid System in a FWD-based application, such as the hoped-for RXh-F.

 

That's the future, I agree. Hybrids are just a stepping stone to BEVs, especially in parts of the world where fast charging infrastructure doesn't exist. BEV costs are mostly in the batteries but once that goes down, you can expect crazy-fast electrics with enough range for almost any driver. And it's a lot easier to add a more powerful electric motor than it is to tune up an engine or tweak a hybrid drivetrain.

I guess most people on this thread are hybrid drivers. Lots of acronyms being tossed around

 

thanks Sulu!

 

Rimac still has 2 gear transmission at front and back... if you want good performance you will always end up complicating it.

And besides, we did have big Tesla issue thread, their powertrains are pretty failure prone so far. While "complicated" Prius ones are the opposite.

Maybe one day EV's will be the norm, but so far sales are abysmal and except for Tesla they are purely product of large government grants. Even Tesla is popular in many countries due to huge tax breaks (for instance Norway, their 2nd biggest market is reliant on tax breaks that make it cheaper than regular 5 series or A6).

There will have to be some significant development thats not known today in order to change that.

 

Wait, what are the two stalks that come out of the dial cluster? Looks like an LFA carryover. One looks like a traction control selector, the other one looks like a mode dial. I don't think both can be easily accessed when driving.

 

Exactly. That $150k cost notion had always been a ridiculously misleading and poor excuse not to put the engine in more models, even if detuned. If BMW was able to build a dedicated V10 just for the E60 M5 and price the car at just $87k, there's absolutely no reason why Lexus can't do the same if not at a lower cost if Lexus' past pricing advantage for its mass-produced vehicles is anything to go by.

Building an engine itself doesn't cost much, but the key to a lower overall cost for an engine is to use it in as many cars as possible to average down the development cost. As the M5 has demonstrated, a car with a dedicated V10 engine doesn't have to be prohibitively expensive as long as the car is well-rounded and sold without any stupid restrictions on volume.

 

I don't understand why some people find it so hard to understand the "4AT" used in the LC500h when a similar system had existed in the GS450h already for a decade. All Lexus did was to bump the "2AT" in the GS450h to "4AT" for the LC500h. It isn't that hard to understand what benefit that brings.

 

Here's some pretty pics we snapped of the LC 500h at the New York show...
https://www.clublexus.com/articles/l...an-appearance/