Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

The LC was bench-marked against the 6-Series (volume leader), the opulent S-Class Coupe, and the exquisite Maserati Gran Turismo. Apart from more luxurious and exotic materials in the LC, it should prove to be the most balanced (luxury and sport aspects), engaging, and rewarding [grand touring] coupe Lexus has ever produced.

Right now words won't do it justice by any means, as all we have are pictures and a few real life experiences to form our own subjective opinions. It will be a vehicle one has to drive and experience to understand just how special this coupe is, like the LFA was.

The LC should not be perceived as a threat to the RC, but rather embraced. Lexus promotes the Kaizen Philosophy which means "continuous improvement". The lessons learned from design and engineering practices are passed further down the Lexus stable. The RC which is a really nice little coupe, is not without flaw. The biggest complaints you hear are "lack of power" "too much weight" "materials could be better" "Frankenstein chassis". As a first generation model, its a solid foundation on which to grow and improve future RC models with the lessons of today.

Also let's hope that future includes the gorgeous RC convertible (LF-C2)

S2000toIS350

yes, I have sat in an RCF and I saw the LC at the same auto show this year, so my impressions of the 2 vehicles were based on observations made minutes from each other.

please do not put words in my mouth, the GSF is a far nicer vehicle than the RCF

ssmoked

When capable buyers that spend well into the six figure range for a possible weekend car or add to their car collection, they are more Interested in the latest, biggest and baddest engine out there (m6, s63 AMG, r8, Gran Turismo and the like). Those brands keep on evolving and increase their power generation after generation while the LC uses the same 10 yr old engine. The LC's major competition in that price range trumps it with their power output. Those buyers are all about bragging to their friends with hp, magazine 0-60, 1/4 mile times during cars and coffee. No one ever brag how soft their leather is or how quiet their cabin is during a car meet. Frankly speaking, the German and Italian competition has far better interior quality and technology anyways. What I'm trying to say is, if Lexus wants to compete with the best of the best German and Italian brands, it needs something unique and stand out that's not copied from lesser models. Especially with the price they are going to ask.

The LFA has its own fabulous engine and unique int/ext design that no other Lexus lineup share.
That's why it demands hypercar prices. Even with its unique traits and being discontinued, there are still brand new ones sitting in dealerships unsold. I wouldn't categorize the LC as anything "special". If I am in the position to upgrade from my RCF, the LC will not be in my circle of options. It would be like paying 50-70 grand more just to upgrade "better interior" with same engine and very similar exterior. Why not just trade in and jump to the German or Italian brand and also get much more power with that price.

You mentioned complaints are lack of power and too much weight for RCF, you don't think the LC buyers will complain about that too since its USING the RCF's engine? Especially the msrp will be at least 40-50k more.

I'm very happy with my RCF and it performance, given the price I paid new. I'm also not beating on the LC as I see there are a lot of fan boys out there. I just can't justify the massive hike in prices when the engine hardware is copied from 10 yrs ago. A logically buyer will simply not pay a six figure price for it when they can get something superior (maybe for a little more). Case in point the Lexus GSF, look how well it's selling after using the RCF's engine and no new innovation.

ssmoked

So let me get this straight, you compared two vehicles' interior by sitting in one and observing one 20feet behind a rope (not saying the LC's interior is not better, it best be for that much more in price premium)? If the rcf is econobox quality, how would you describe your is350 interior

That's funny. If you actually did sat and test drove in the GSF and RCF you would have knowticed the seats and dash displays are IDENTICAL and the instruments and dashes are made from same material with just different layout. Sorry, I call bs

S2000toIS350

The GSF was not roped off at the show in Chicago.

I had an 06 IS350 and thought the interior was nicer than than the current generation IS.

As an example the hard plastic used for the heating controls for the new IS looks/feels K Mart to me.

Back to the LC, the interior is pure executive treatment for the driver and front passenger. The rear passengers got robbed on space though.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

Bear in mind the 5.0 is the 'base' engine so to speak. The 6-Series comes standard as the 640i with a 3.0L I6. The LC500 which supposedly rings in around $90K is slated against the likes of the 650i which comes in at $89,695 before options. That vehicle uses a 4.4L V8 with 445hp which is a little under the LC500’s 467hp (granted the 5.0 has less torque). The M6 uses a hopped up version of the N63 (4.4L) called the S63 with 560hp. When an LC F comes to fruition, that will be your M6, S63 AMG, Gran Turismo competitor.

I’ll start by saying the 2UR-GSE 5.0 is a good engine. I agree it’s becoming dated but it still puts a smile on your face (you own one, you should know). This engine is what I’d call a bridge engine, in that it bridges the gap between the original IS F version and future Lexus F powertrains. The next set of F vehicles should be powered by a 4.0-5.0L V8 with forced induction if rumors are true. One little thing Lexus did differently was add a secondary intake to the LC500 vs the RC F and GS F. Everyone’s getting ancy, but we’re on the cusp of a whole new generation of Lexus powertrains


I think the upcoming 5LS and LC will buck the trend for interior quality but agreed, Lexus has lacked in technology (especially infotainment) for years.

That is too subjective for me to comment, because IMO, short of the Grand Turismo, nothing comes close to looking as exotic and visually stunning



Not just the engine but the CFRP body.

Everyone’s entitled to their opinion. What works for one, doesn’t work for the other, there is no perfect vehicle .

Reread my original post #7, I never mentioned the RC F by name. I’m talking about the RC in general. All those are common complaints you’ll see in reviews, on forums, competitive tests etc. As mentioned above, the LC500 is the ‘base’ engine. Lexus saw fit to equip the LC with the 5.0 from the F portfolio because it’s a great starting point. The weight thing can be attributed to the ‘Frankenstein chassis’ on which the RC is built. Using the front architecture and suspension of the 4GS, the mid section of the IS C, and the rear section from the 3IS. Don’t get me wrong, the RC is very compliant and rigid from this combination of structural bracing but there is a weight penalty. When the next generation IS, RC, and GS are planned they will likely use Lexus’s new Global Architecture for Luxury vehicles (GA-L) chassis. The LC and LS will be the first to utilize GA-L. Paired with a new generation of powertrains, and Lexus will have some of the most dynamic vehicles on the road

I wouldn’t say copied, they own it . This most recently updated 2UR-GSE will be a fine motor because of its position in the LC model line. The LC500 is not trying to pretend to be something it’s not, whereas the GS F should have been called the GS500. If the IS/RC/RC F stack up against a 3-Series/4-Series, and the GS is slated against the 5-Series but with M3/M4 power then something’s amiss. I digress, that’s for another discussion though hah.

chromedome

No talk of the LC500h? That's a game changer for the luxury segment, no other manufacturer has a cheapish, efficient sports coupe that looks like a concept car. The i8 is priced a lot higher. Porsche could make a ton of money by offering a hybrid 911 if they ever choose to.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

You're right it does deserve a mention. It shows Lexus's dedication towards making hybrids more engaging with this trick multi-stage transmission. The output is marginally better at 354hp vs 338hp though personally I think they missed a huge opportunity to add a larger capacity battery pack and more power electric motors in the realm of 400hp. This coupe looks poised break the GS450h's 29/34/31 mpg ratings. The increased all electric speed and range is also

LC500h has double the cylinder count of the i8

spwolf

I still cant believe a smart guy like you is still stuck on HP when we know how much better LC500h performance is compared to GS450h. It is 1s faster 0-60! That's basically the difference between GS350 and GS-F! Yes, I am saying it tongue-in-cheek!

Problem with large capacity battery back is that after you do a lap or two at max, you are left with half of it being unused anymore since your brakes cant recover energy fast enough. So you are left hauling dead weight for no good reason at all... not to mention that you are paying for it anyway.

It only makes sense when Europeans are tying to lower car taxes by using low range plugin. Goverments are slowly closing this loophole and limiting it based on EV miles and cost of the vehicle.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

To be fair the LC also uses more lighter exotic materials, but you're right the system deserves more credit. Yes it majorly improves upon the GS's woes like full EV range, max EV speed, likely more efficiency, a marginal bump in power, and most importantly Driving engagement. But as good of an improvement as this is, I'm just afraid it will fall out of the limelight like the GS450h. Pushed in a corner and forgotten. The LC500 is stunning. Is the equally stunning LC500h with a lower power rating and likely higher price tag be able to make a splash, or will this be a repeat of the aforementioned GS450h?

Sulu

You are correct that the LC 500h does not make much sense as a high-speed sports or grand-touring car but it makes great sense as a true technology flagship. The purpose of this car is to show off Lexus' expertise with high-efficiency hybrid vehicles.

situman

When said technology doesn't translate into horsepower it won't translate into buzzworthiness it won't translate into sales = forgotten.

UDel

Why would it be a game changer? Hybrid luxury cars are very poor sellers. People in that market don't care much about getting good fuel economy and unless it is quicker and cheaper then the V8 standard version I can't see many wanting the hybrid over the V8 just to get a little better fuel economy. I don't think many buyers would want a hybrid 911, we will see but 911 buyers are often picky and want purity, many are opposed to Porsche putting a turbo in all 911's.

G Star

iTrader: (2)

Being defensive about the car you own is natural when there is something that is better and more expensive coming out.

ssmoked

Defensive? Come again? I'm just laughing at the six figure price tag some will pay with only cosmetic upgrades. Sad part is there will always be fanboys like yourself make excuses defending the dismal sales when it's released.

So when you going to trade in the 06 and get on my level?