Sulu

Why is it acceptable to sell a 21st-Century flagship coupe with early 20th-Century technology (turbocharging) but not acceptable to sell that flagship with a 21st-Century gasoline-electric Multi Stage Hybrid System?

Why is it acceptable to pay a premium for 20th-Century turbocharging technology to save fuel, yet it is not acceptable to pay a premium for 21st-Century hybrid technology to save fuel?

Why should I pay a premium for a turbocharged engine when the car will also be available with a naturally-aspirated engine that will have about the same power, immediate response to the throttle without lag, and get the same -- or perhaps even better -- real-world fuel efficiency?

Why not pay the premium for 21st-Century hybrid drive technology that will offer real fuel efficiency and much cleaner emissions than either the turbocharged engine or the naturally-aspirated engine?

RNM GS3

^
People that buy 100k performance luxury coupes don't care about hybrids unless the car is for the wife.
The care about the Badge, Styling, Luxury and HP figures.

Prius has given Hybrids a stigma of slow / econobox / safe - the opposite of what 100k buyers look for in a car.
Tesla has enormous success because of its Brand - the fact that its innovative, sets trends, cool tech and their cars are Fast as hell. None of which Lexus has accomplished in terms of image related to their hybrids.

Even BMW's i brand is a total Fail. They cant give the i3 away and the i8 only sells bec of its styling. If it had a TT V8, it would sell at double its current volume.
Luxury buyers don't want hybrids and tech ppl with $$$ go to Tesla for the badge and advanced tech and the fact the car is 100% electric.

chromedome

Agree with Sulu all the way. It's not just efficiency, it's the power delivery that makes sporty hybrids fun to drive - the instant torque on launch from the electric motors spanks any turbo engine, while the multistage transmission should get rid of the typical Toyota PSD rubberband feel. If Lexus size the batteries and motors right, the LC500h could have acceleration almost as good as a Model S P90D but with the added range from a gas engine.

Then again, if Tesla ever make a coupe body, this thing would be toast

rominl

iTrader: (4)

possible for it to hit close to 30mpg, but that's not going to offset much on the performance and price tag. lc500h figure makes it sounds like it has v8 performance, but there seems to be a discrepancy

instant torque, in theory. in reality it has to do with weight of the car and most important tranny gearing. with those two together, the "instant torque" on the lc500h has some way to go

but the hybrid isn't really adding much "tech" to this car than what the lc500 is not. hybrid is something dated back over a decade ago.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

p90d? hardly...

i am all for lexus hybrid to be more about performance than about gas mileage. people paying high price tag for a luxury car most of the time care little about paying extra 200-300 bucks on gas every year. lexus have the capability, but imho they wasted the last decade of chances

PhilipMSPT

iTrader: (5)

Then by comparison, naturally aspirated engines are ancient.

It's progressive. Not better or best. Just evolutional.

G Star

iTrader: (2)

Good post.

nd to answer your question, because Turbo sounds cooler.

G Star

iTrader: (2)

I totally agree with this assessment. I don't know if its the conservative Japanese nature but they certainly did miss out on a lot.

I really think Lexus could've been the pioneer in luxury plug-in hybrids but there was some desire to be fashionably late by skipping plug-ins, electric cars and directly jump to hydrogen. Electric appears to be winning the war for the future.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

i never said the engine in the lc500 is any new great tech either. i simply don't see anything progressive with the lc500h, its hybrid is nothing to match the lc500. at least on the gs450h/gs460 or ls600hl/ls460, you see the hybrid being head to head. if they made the lc500h matching performance of lc500 but with 50% better efficiency then yup it's good. as of now though it's the other way, especially when price tags come into play as well

i have to be honest. at this point i think electric is going to take over. i think hybrid are making less and less sense. electric is quickly gaining popularity. for those who wants efficiency, electric is ramping quick. for those who wants performance, electric is (can) killing it. hybrid starts to get in the middle of nowhere

G Star

iTrader: (2)

Does anybody think Lexus is betting hard on hydrogen without a back up for electric?

They were so ahead of the game with hybrids and they could've been first or even second to the fully electric game as long as they followed the path. Their reasoning was hybrids gave efficiency while convenient for getting gas. I think hydrogen is the wrong bet...

Vladi

Yup. That is my impression as well. To this day I am not sure what they even tried to accomplish with their hybrid technology. Since 2007 their actual hybrid setup did not evolve much and their PHEV experiment ended up being the worst PHEV ever offered.

Some of my conclusions are:
1. Hybrid thing was the greatest PR campaign in the history of the industry
2. They play ultra-conservative and safe waiting game by banking on oil industry and their promises of keep alive the fuel infrastructure no matter what the fuel will be (at the moment fuel of the future is hydrogen)
3. They are banking on hydrogen right now its obvious but they are still cautious and they hope they win and pull out another hybrid PR stunt
4. If EV wins they will be in trouble for a brief period. It's Toyota they will survive no doubt and adjust.

I personally want to see EV and FCV live together side by side for a very long time. I don't want one to rule it all just like I didn't want Blu-ray to get over HDDVD ten years ago.

webra

Agree. They may have lost their lead on hybrids too, now that the European first wave....740e, 330e, MB C300 hybrid has finally arrived. Why should there be economy or performance hybrids? Both can be in one car. And Multi stage hybrid? A real breakthrough or a fancy name for more gears when others just use one gearbox with many gears.

Their lead used to be in hybrids and reliability. Not sure if that's enough anymore.

They nearly became an exciting brand.

situman

I don't know but the NSX seems to be power maximus to me with its turbo V6. I dont know how the Porsche plug in hybrid will be like, but being a Porsche, it will surely have lots of power. I doubt the LC will have better build quality than both. On par at the most. In terms of tech, I feel like it will be comparable, less the 4spd thats in the Lexus Hybrid. If the Hybrid tech is meant to make a statement about Lexus technology, then it will have to be ***** out powerful and efficient.

situman

Exactly my point. The LC is a toy and the people that can afford these toys fuel economy shouldnt be a consideration.

situman

For the price, at a minimum, they should have shoved the engine from the LSh in there. The GSh system will be overmatched in its price range. I guess there could be room for a LCh-F.