Dieselgate Part Deux: The Daimler Chapter
#1
Dieselgate Part Deux: The Daimler Chapter
Uh -oh.....
Unlike VW's system, Daimler's software does not need to detect that the car is on a dynanometer. The required ambient temperature during the official EU emissions test is 22 degrees centigrade, well above the 10 degrees where Daimler shuts its emission treatment off. I wonder if the software is designed to shut down the emissions system under any other circumstances?
Source: http://www.forbes.com/sites/bertelschmitt/2016/02/02/dieselgate-reaches-daimler-a-defeat-device-by-another-name/#b476c8d18913
In tests by Netherland’s official automobile inspector[...], a C-Class Mercedes C220 TDi BlueTec was found emitting more than 40 times the amount of cancer-causing NOx than in the lab. After Dutch TV picked up the tough to ignore scent, the Stuttgart automaker complained that the tests were done at temperatures below 10 degree centigrade (50 F).
Germany’s Spiegel Magazne writes why:
“There is, says Mercedes, a shut-off device in the engine management of its C-Class diesel cars that stops the NOx cleaning under these and other circumstances. This is for the protection of the engine, and permissible, says the Stuttgart automaker.“
Germany’s Spiegel Magazne writes why:
“There is, says Mercedes, a shut-off device in the engine management of its C-Class diesel cars that stops the NOx cleaning under these and other circumstances. This is for the protection of the engine, and permissible, says the Stuttgart automaker.“
Source: http://www.forbes.com/sites/bertelschmitt/2016/02/02/dieselgate-reaches-daimler-a-defeat-device-by-another-name/#b476c8d18913
#2
Lol so at 10 degree C, there is no emissions control system on the MB diesel? What if you live in Canada or the midwest, where the temperature is in that range 6 months of the year?
What if you're driving home at night?
Granted it's not "fraud" like in VW's case, but it still underscores how oversold the benefits of diesels have been by the European car makers and the European auto media.
What if you're driving home at night?
Granted it's not "fraud" like in VW's case, but it still underscores how oversold the benefits of diesels have been by the European car makers and the European auto media.
#3
Lol so at 10 degree C, there is no emissions control system on the MB diesel? What if you live in Canada or the midwest, where the temperature is in that range 6 months of the year?
What if you're driving home at night?
Granted it's not "fraud" like in VW's case, but it still underscores how oversold the benefits of diesels have been by the European car makers and the European auto media.
What if you're driving home at night?
Granted it's not "fraud" like in VW's case, but it still underscores how oversold the benefits of diesels have been by the European car makers and the European auto media.
While VW is the only one who did something illegal, this is clearly not entirely forthcoming of what we expect when Daimler claims NOx figures.
#4
Lol so at 10 degree C, there is no emissions control system on the MB diesel? What if you live in Canada or the midwest, where the temperature is in that range 6 months of the year?
What if you're driving home at night?
Granted it's not "fraud" like in VW's case, but it still underscores how oversold the benefits of diesels have been by the European car makers and the European auto media.
What if you're driving home at night?
Granted it's not "fraud" like in VW's case, but it still underscores how oversold the benefits of diesels have been by the European car makers and the European auto media.
#5
this is very interesting. imo, this shouldn't be dubbed a defeat device as Daimler states, but rather an engine "feature" to protect the engine or so they say. seems logical enough. although, features like this shouldn't be kept from the public nor come to light under investigation. It would need to be specified/documented in a manufacturers datasheet or manual of some sort. It is possible that this feature is written in internal Daimler documents not publicly available, but who knows.
#6
Lol so at 10 degree C, there is no emissions control system on the MB diesel? What if you live in Canada or the midwest, where the temperature is in that range 6 months of the year?
What if you're driving home at night?
Granted it's not "fraud" like in VW's case, but it still underscores how oversold the benefits of diesels have been by the European car makers and the European auto media.
What if you're driving home at night?
Granted it's not "fraud" like in VW's case, but it still underscores how oversold the benefits of diesels have been by the European car makers and the European auto media.
I dont think it is in USA though, it might be limited to Europe only.
#7
this is very interesting. imo, this shouldn't be dubbed a defeat device as Daimler states, but rather an engine "feature" to protect the engine or so they say. seems logical enough. although, features like this shouldn't be kept from the public nor come to light under investigation. It would need to be specified/documented in a manufacturers datasheet or manual of some sort. It is possible that this feature is written in internal Daimler documents not publicly available, but who knows.
It certainly would not get sales approval in the USA.
Trending Topics
#9
#10
this is very interesting. imo, this shouldn't be dubbed a defeat device as Daimler states, but rather an engine "feature" to protect the engine or so they say. seems logical enough. although, features like this shouldn't be kept from the public nor come to light under investigation. It would need to be specified/documented in a manufacturers datasheet or manual of some sort. It is possible that this feature is written in internal Daimler documents not publicly available, but who knows.
#11
One has to be stupid to think that only the Germans fraud these testes. Guess ****ing what? Everybody does, including self righteous Toyota. It's about passing the stupid test to get a good grade and therefore put the car on a lower and crucially CHEAPER emission rating tax bracket. It's simple as that. Even Toyota does the same and they cheat because governments use the environmental paranoia as an excuse to steal more money from us using emissions based taxation.
Last edited by Hayek; 02-03-16 at 04:10 AM.
#12
I agree, IF they had previously disclosed this feature to the regulators and the regulators still gave them approval then there is no issue. However, the article seems to suggest that EU regulators had no prior knowledge the system functioned in this manner. I guess we'll have to wait and see how this goes down.
10c is 50F for people who did not look it up. So at 50F or below, their emission system does not work.
Also, I just read in Der Spiegel how tests were done at steady city speeds and showed up to 2000mg/km, which is crazy (80mg/km is limit). So this is not a high load test, just 20-35 mph steady speed test.
Some regulatory agencies are calling for ban of C class from driving and also from entering city centers when temp is 10c or under. Many european cities have smog check measuring stations that enact different rules when emissions go over some health limit.
#13
One has to be stupid to think that only the Germans fraud these testes. Guess ****ing what? Everybody does, including self righteous Toyota. It's about passing the stupid test to get a good grade and therefore put the car on a lower and crucially CHEAPER emission rating tax bracket. It's simple as that. Even Toyota does the same and they cheat because governments use the environmental paranoia as an excuse to steal more money from us using emissions based taxation.
#14
I guess the Benz emissions system works at 22C or above, the temperature for the Euro test, and stops working below that. If that's not a defeat device, I don't know what is. Pumping out huge amounts of NOx in winter could be even worse than in summer because it creates low level smog.
#15
well obviously reason they hid this was that the car would never get approval for sales, in other words it would be banned. Just because emission testing in Europe is done at 22c, does not mean that car should disengage emission controls after 10c is reached... i would understand -30c... but 10c is normal temperature for most of Europe.
It certainly would not get sales approval in the USA.
It certainly would not get sales approval in the USA.
I agree, IF they had previously disclosed this feature to the regulators and the regulators still gave them approval then there is no issue. However, the article seems to suggest that EU regulators had no prior knowledge the system functioned in this manner. I guess we'll have to wait and see how this goes down.