2017 Corolla first look
#61
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Well, although I am firm believer that a beam suspension should not be offered in this day and age, between the Cruze/Corolla/Elantra and I am sure there are some others, it has not made a difference in their sales as people still buy them. I believe if configured correctly, a Corolla will still be cheaper from at the MSRP and based on matching features. But you do get a slightly larger engine, and IRS, and a 6 speed auto. But not everyone cares to go fast and drive spirited.
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 03-27-16 at 02:14 PM.
#62
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Its not about driving in a spirited way, every aspect of driving is better. Ride is better, more refined, more premium feeling, quieter, sharper.
#63
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The reason the Corolla isn't any more state of the art and has cheap parts like drum brakes, rear beam suspension, aneimic 1.8 liter engine, 4 speed automatic, etc, etc, etc is that Toyota sells this same car in 3rd world countries like Mexico, Indonesia, India, etc. They have to keep costs down in order to compete in those markets as well.
#64
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Interesting enough, some cars in Europe have multilink vs torsion beam depending on engine. For instance - Golf and Auris. Pretty much in every single review reviewers said that they cant notice the difference between the two which I found interesting since before if vehicle doesnt have multilink, it was automatically deemed poor. As soon as Golf went back to torsion beam to save weight and cost in lower range, torsion beam went back to being fine once again.
#65
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Originally Posted by spwolf
Interesting enough, some cars in Europe have multilink vs torsion beam depending on engine. For instance - Golf and Auris. Pretty much in every single review reviewers said that they cant notice the difference between the two which I found interesting since before if vehicle doesnt have multilink, it was automatically deemed poor. As soon as Golf went back to torsion beam to save weight and cost in lower range, torsion beam went back to being fine once again.
#66
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The reason the Corolla isn't any more state of the art and has cheap parts like drum brakes, rear beam suspension, aneimic 1.8 liter engine, 4 speed automatic, etc, etc, etc is that Toyota sells this same car in 3rd world countries like Mexico, Indonesia, India, etc. They have to keep costs down in order to compete in those markets as well.
#67
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The current gen was pretty meh when it was introduced the refresh doesn't do much. We won't see significant upgrades until it is built on the new platform where the cost savings can translate to better features and powertrains.
#68
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However, I do understand the advantages of IRS during cornering on bumpy roads, where it is much superior to a beam.
Last edited by mmarshall; 03-28-16 at 07:12 AM.
#69
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Among compact sedans, it's hard to get quieter or more refined than a Verano, even with a beam-axle...on many road surfaces, it is the closest thing to a tomb that you'll get in that class. And the handling, by Buick standards, is quite responsive, though not quite on a level with the sport-sedan Regal GS. Beam axles also have the advantage of (usually) not having to do 4-wheel alignments unless the rear suspension is damaged, saving a little on service.
However, I do understand the advantages of IRS during cornering on bumpy roads, where it is much superior to a beam.
However, I do understand the advantages of IRS during cornering on bumpy roads, where it is much superior to a beam.
No advantages to a beam axle for a passenger car. Thats why no premium vehicles have them.
#70
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No advantages to a beam axle for a passenger car. Thats why no premium vehicles have them.
#71
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- It is a very simple (yet elegant) design, with fewer parts than an independent rear suspension, taking less time to produce, making it less expensive to produce. That makes it very suitable for inexpensive cars, especially inexpensive cars for sale in the USA (which is known to be a very price-sensitive market for compact-size and smaller cars). Small cars for sale in the USA that are "loaded" with features, including an independent rear suspension, have very, very likely cut costs elsewhere in the design or build.
- It is a very compact design, which, again, makes it suitable for smaller cars. The VW Rabbit / Golf had always had a torsion beam axle, even the hot-hatch GTI model. It was not until Ford proved -- on the original Ford Focus -- that an independent rear suspension could be designed to be very compact (taking up very little vertical space), did VW go with a multi-link IRS (that some people believe was designed by engineers VW hired away from Ford).
- It is not as good as a multi-link or double-wishbone (independent) rear suspension at locating the wheels laterally (preventing side-to-side movement) but this can be largely corrected with a simple Watt's linkage, which is what the Buick Verano offers.
#72
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Sulu, you make some good points. I seriously doubt a Mazda 3 will last as long a Toyota Corolla and provide Toyota durability. ,So I could see costs being cut in other places. Also, the Mazda 3 feature for feature will cost more than a Corolla, so I expect the car to perform somewhat better.
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 03-28-16 at 10:32 AM.
#73
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Not everyone buying in specific class wants a car that is as quiet as a tomb. What works for one buyer might be different than for another buyer.
#74
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If there are all of these benefits to torsion beam suspensions why don't premium cars have them? Why only economy cars and lower trim levels of cars? I don't really have an issue with the Corolla having a torsion beam suspension because it's not marketed as a premium car, my point was the edgy styling is selling an experience the car doesn't deliver, the lack of an independent rear is just an example of that.
As for the Mazda, Mazdas are plenty reliable. My cousin has an 09 Mazda 3 with 170,000 miles, he has had nothing but routine maintenance done to it. Still has the original rear brakes.
As for the Mazda, Mazdas are plenty reliable. My cousin has an 09 Mazda 3 with 170,000 miles, he has had nothing but routine maintenance done to it. Still has the original rear brakes.
Last edited by SW17LS; 03-28-16 at 10:42 AM.
#75
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Sulu, you make some good points. I seriously doubt a Mazda 3 will last as long a Toyota Corolla and provide Toyota durability. ,So I could see costs being cut in other places. Also, the Mazda 3 feature for feature will cost more than a Corolla, so I expect the car to perform somewhat better.