2017 Corolla first look
03-30-16, 04:54 AM
#106
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Yes the competition has caught up no doubt, however not sure if that has lessened the enthusiast appeal for products like Tacoma or Prius. Tacoma especially has a very strong enthusiast base.
03-30-16, 05:44 AM
#107
Lexus Champion
For almost $40k, I was expecting somewhat better performance than a my Corolla of 134HP or of a Matrix which cost less. It was also not as quiet as I was expecting. And finally, it was smaller on the inside even thought the dimensions were almost the same as a Matrix. The Matrix is listed as 561 interior litres vs 405 for the CT. Also, remote touch is not at all very pleasing to use. Also, looking back now, I was slightly annoyed that there was some more required maintenance to do than a comparable Toyota Corolla or Matrix.
Jill, you didn't thoroughly test drive a CT before buying one? you would've immediately known about the acceleration, or lack thereof, as well as noise levels when driving.... two of the biggest factors....
as far as being smaller inside than a Matrix.... again, a simple pop of the hatch of the CT would have shown you the size before you bought.
03-30-16, 05:55 AM
#108
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by sorptd
Yes the competition has caught up no doubt, however not sure if that has lessened the enthusiast appeal for products like Tacoma or Prius. Tacoma especially has a very strong enthusiast base.
03-30-16, 06:17 AM
#109
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
agreed. GE sells a ton of boring plain refrigerators too which i don't consider great products either. 
but they sell because they 'met the expectations of most buyers'. i like to see market disruptions though. nokia cell phones 'met the expectations of most customers' too (make phone calls and text) until apple showed they could get much more and something much greater in function and design in an iphone. game over.
but they sell because they 'met the expectations of most buyers'. i like to see market disruptions though. nokia cell phones 'met the expectations of most customers' too (make phone calls and text) until apple showed they could get much more and something much greater in function and design in an iphone. game over.
03-30-16, 06:22 AM
#110
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
That is ironic. And even more strange is that the Mazda rebadged Yaris starts at $16,995 wheras the Corolla starts at $15,995 in Canada.
03-30-16, 06:59 AM
#111
Lexus Fanatic
I don't really care what car magazines have to say. I go out and experience cars for myself and form my own conclusions as opposed to just regurgitating somebody else's conclusions. If you went out in the mid to late 90s and sat in a Toyota, and sat in the competition the difference in quality was significant with the advantage to Toyota. Look at the 4Runner in the mid 90s compared to what else was out there in that segment, I know because we were buyers in that segment in 1995 and 1997. We chose the Explorer each time because it was bigger and American, but the quality of a 4 Runner vs anything else was apparent.
Nowadays when you go out and you make the same comparison, the difference still exists except that quite frankly almost everything in a segment feels more solid and premium than any Toyota. That's a big change, and I think it's a real shame.
Yes they're still reliable, but everything else is much more reliable than it used to be. I think Toyota recognizes this because they've made a lot of strides towards making their cars better in other areas again, just look at the last generation Highlander to this one as a great example. Rav 4 too. They have a ways to go still.
Really though, between say 2007-2013 or so IMHO Toyota was making the worst interiors in the business.
Nowadays when you go out and you make the same comparison, the difference still exists except that quite frankly almost everything in a segment feels more solid and premium than any Toyota. That's a big change, and I think it's a real shame.
Yes they're still reliable, but everything else is much more reliable than it used to be. I think Toyota recognizes this because they've made a lot of strides towards making their cars better in other areas again, just look at the last generation Highlander to this one as a great example. Rav 4 too. They have a ways to go still.
Really though, between say 2007-2013 or so IMHO Toyota was making the worst interiors in the business.
Last edited by SW17LS; 03-30-16 at 07:05 AM.
03-30-16, 07:10 AM
#112
Lexus Fanatic
I don't really care what car magazines have to say. I go out and experience cars for myself and form my own conclusions as opposed to just regurgitating somebody else's conclusions. If you went out in the mid to late 90s and sat in a Toyota, and sat in the competition the difference in quality was significant with the advantage to Toyota. Look at the 4Runner in the mid 90s compared to what else was out there in that segment, I know because we were buyers in that segment in 1995 and 1997. We chose the Explorer each time because it was bigger and American, but the quality of a 4 Runner vs anything else was apparent.
Nowadays when you go out and you make the same comparison, the difference still exists except that quite frankly almost everything in a segment feels more solid and premium than any Toyota. That's a big change, and I think it's a real shame.
Nowadays when you go out and you make the same comparison, the difference still exists except that quite frankly almost everything in a segment feels more solid and premium than any Toyota. That's a big change, and I think it's a real shame.
03-30-16, 10:43 AM
#113
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
my point is, delivering 'what customers expect' can leave a company vulnerable to being blindsided by someone else delivering what the customer didn't even know they would want until it existed.
toyota's conservative and safe nature has lead to hyundai/kia's (and even subaru's) meteoric rise as they took lots of risks. honda clearly lost its way entirely for about a decade too. both toyota and honda are now fighting back hard (i'd say honda even more so) which is great to see.
03-30-16, 11:10 AM
#114
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
you missed my point completely. nokia was THE cell phone company for a long time, then blackberry was THE 'smart-er' phone company, and both got BLOWN AWAY by the iphone that invented a whole new category. sure android is competitive today, but that wasn't my point. also, iphones on payment plan here are almost no different in price vs. any other premium phone. see here, iphone 6s and samsung s7 same price: http://www.verizonwireless.com/smartphones/
A Toyota Corolla gets one from A-B with as little fuss as possible. A Toyota is reliable, easy to use and provides satisfaction that is usually a little higher (for the Toyota buyer) than the rest of the competitors in a given segment.
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 03-30-16 at 11:19 AM.
03-30-16, 11:17 AM
#115
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Its bizarre that you do not like the Avalon in either this generation or the last. Both are fine $30-$35k Toyota's. You are probably the only person that I have seen that has dismissed the current Avalon interior and the last Avalon rode nice and wallowy like you yearned for time and time again. I am convinced that it might have something to do with your love of Buick, and IMO and many others, the last two Avalons were the best Buicks ever, only they were made by Toyota.
03-30-16, 11:30 AM
#116
toyota's conservative and safe nature has lead to hyundai/kia's (and even subaru's) meteoric rise as they took lots of risks. honda clearly lost its way entirely for about a decade too. both toyota and honda are now fighting back hard (i'd say honda even more so) which is great to see.
Honda is not doing well but is doing something about it, just few years late.
Toyota is doing the best in their history.
Your story was relevant 10 years ago - and we had trade magazines full of such "concerns". Even here on CL, we had tons of stories about how everyone will switch from Toyota and Lexus to Hyundai.
Hyundai and KIA today are serious brands, and they are not "upcoming" anymore. They have their own problems with declining profits and questionable reliability which led to re-shuffling of executives last year. As to them taking customers from Toyota, it seems that they have taken it from "local" brands such as GM/Ford/C in the USA and PSA/Ford/Opel in the Europe not Toyota.
As to the Corolla, this is likely the best Corolla in the history. Good prices, very good build quality, good engines, competent handling, great equipment levels (leading the class in many cases), large and comfy. It is very nice vehicle and hence people are buying them in record numbers today.
Only thing it is missing is hot hatch, but why in the world would you get Corolla hot hatch when there is a GT 86 and WRX? It makes no sense, market for those is dwindling. Instead of doing crazy things with Corolla they will build few more SUVs that everyone wants.
03-30-16, 11:38 AM
#117
Lexus Fanatic
Its bizarre that you do not like the Avalon in either this generation or the last. Both are fine $30-$35k Toyota's. You are probably the only person that I have seen that has dismissed the current Avalon interior and the last Avalon rode nice and wallowy like you yearned for time and time again. I am convinced that it might have something to do with your love of Buick, and IMO and many others, the last two Avalons were the best Buicks ever, only they were made by Toyota.
Last edited by mmarshall; 03-30-16 at 11:51 AM.
03-30-16, 11:46 AM
#118
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Well, Jill, With all due respect, whether you approve or not, my opinion of the present Avalon stands....and will stand. It has nothing to do whatsoever with my opinion of Buick...and, for that matter, there are several Buick models, BTW, that I don't think very highly of. And, as for the present Avalon, it wasn't necessarily my complaints that forced Toyota into a suspension-softening for 2016. It was the Avalon owners themselves. ...those who actually bought and paid money for the car. Your beef is with THEM, not with me.
03-30-16, 11:50 AM
#119
Lexus Fanatic
Also just trying to make a point on my side.