I rode over to the Hyundai dealer today with a buddy of mine to drop off his loaner and pick up a different one (long story) but anyways he was given an Elantra with 450 miles on it. Add that to the list of cars I would buy over a Corolla too lol. I had a Corolla as a rental a few months ago myself, this is better looking, interior has better quality materials, more comfortable, much quieter and better riding.

 

And was that the all new Elantra? or the outgoing model? I'd take both over the Corolla.

 

The all new Elantra. Sharp little car, window sticker was in the glove box. $19k.

 

not following you. toyota does not own subaru.

again you equate sales volume with 'best' and that's not the point here. yes, millions of sheeple love the corolla but that certainly doesn't make it the best car in its segment. anyone who's really into cars can look at a corolla, then a civic, mazda 3, elantra, and on and on, and see the corolla is foul in comparison. does it sell well and will it continue to sell well because it has a loyal following, strong reliability, and is a 'safe choice'? sure. does that make it the best in its class? especially with the '17 AWFUL front end? hell no.

 

Toyota owns a small percentage of Fuji Heavy Industries.

Fuji Heavy Industry owns Subaru. So technically, Toyota does own (small part) Subaru

 

He never said sales=best. He said Toyota is doing their best in history.

 

right now, the majority of main makers are doing their best too in history. and populations grow, and other developing parts of the world have suddenly massively increased their demand for vehicles, so this really doesn't say much.

 

We saw that in the planning and design of the BR-Z/FR-S/GT-86 sports-coupe.

 

Yes, automakers are doing the best all around. But, if the sales of the Corolla are up, just like all of the others then they must be doing something right to have the competitive sales that they are having. Perhaps the Corolla is in fact satisfying the buyers who are buying them. If the vehicle was as fowl as you mentioned, the Corolla should see some sales issues.

 

I've been hearing the same thing for 20+ years, the competition has caught up, their quality is just as good as Toyota, the are more fun to drive etc. etc. rinse repeat. And yet Toyota continues to have a proven record of reliability and longevity no other auto maker has been able to match.

Maybe one day.

 

I would have to agree with you, I have been hearing this as well. What works for a Toyota Corolla is different than works for that of a Mazda 3.

I have said it before, most Toyota's usually are middle of the pack for car tests, historically Toyota also does not sell based on the spec sheet or HP numbers etc etc. This really has not changed.

 

Toyota is largest minority owner of Subaru.

I guess we will have to gauge the success of automaker not by its profits and sales, but by how You like its vehicle's front end :-)

"Sheep", "safe choices", etc, etc are fake excuses by haters.... Toyota sales go down when they make non-competitive product just like with any other manufacturer. We have been hearing this for decades and it is still silly.

 

One of the ongoing issues in this thread, though, being debated, is just what constitutes or defines "competiveness" and "non-competiveness". You have a point (and I at least partially agree) that one cannot argue with sales figures....the object of most auto companies, most of the time, is to sell as many vehicles and/or make as much profit as possible. If spindle grilles sell, then it probably makes little or no difference what you, me, or bitkahuna may personally think of them.

But, then, there's also the power of suggestion. If some people have a group of friends, relatives, or colleagues that don't like the grilles, then, unless they are the type (like me) that buys what they want or suits them, over and above what other people may think, then their buying-decisions may end up being influenced by peer pressure. Same if they are a fan of a certain auto magazine or publication, and that publication doesn't like the grille....the press could influence their sale.

Jill also brings up the point (correctly, IMO) that Toyota, in general, does not sell their vehicles based on HP/torque, 0-60 times, or handling/skidpad figures like some manufacturers do. And, of course, that basic philosophy, though it may not satisfy some of those on this forum or die-hard enthusiasts, seems to have worked.

 

Another reason Toyota moves a lot of Corollas(and Camrys) is that they sell them to fleets. IE Hertz, Budget, or as a company car

 

i don't hate toyota! i have immense respect for what they do and what they've accomplished, and there's no doubt the zillions of corollas, camrys, etc. make millions of customers very satisfied, so one can only respect that! doesn't mean i have to like corollas and camrys themselves though.

another analogy about sales volume and success vs. greatness of product, apple mac vs. microsoft windows. the apple product was clearly superior, yet microsoft windows completely dominated the market despite endless bugs, confusion, viruses, and on and on. a typical dell or hp low-mid spec windows pc are the corolla and camry of computers. are they special? no. are millions of people satisfied with them? apparently, and keep coming back for more.

toyota does though do non-boring things. in fact, they 'attacked themselves' (very smart move) by their huge investment in hybrid tech. i have mixed feelings about the resulting product implementation and benefits (not a prius fan, but think the rav4/rx hybrids, gs450h, ls600hL are pretty great), but one can't deny the success of it all.

so back to the thread... the '17 corolla is the windows 10 dell inspiron laptop - it works, for most they won't be let down, it's not expensive, but there's definitely better choices out there.